What To Do About The Police

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wtfluff
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Re: What To Do About The Police

Post by wtfluff » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:26 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:54 am
Random wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:00 pm
Aren't firearms illegal there?
Good point. Their mass murderers have to resort to using knives, so they only kill the number of people you can count on one hand, rather than mowing them down by the dozens.
Yeah, I asked an ardent 2nd amendment promoter one time to explain to me what a mass shooting looked like when the second amendment was written. He was unwilling to follow the logic of: "Bang!" one shot with the muzzle-loader, and 5 minutes reloading while all the other people who would have been targets scattered.
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Hagoth
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Re: What To Do About The Police

Post by Hagoth » Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:00 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:26 am

Yeah, I asked an ardent 2nd amendment promoter one time to explain to me what a mass shooting looked like when the second amendment was written. He was unwilling to follow the logic of: "Bang!" one shot with the muzzle-loader, and 5 minutes reloading while all the other people who would have been targets scattered.
Of course, guns were only for white people. Black people were not allowed to own guns in most states until the 14th amendment, after that Jim Crow laws maintained white-only gun restrictions.
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alas
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Re: What To Do About The Police

Post by alas » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:20 pm

Random wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:00 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:44 am
I am surprised that these kinds of conversations never mention that the police in the UK are able to maintain law and order without the use of firearms. Most of them are armed only with batons and pepper spray. Of course, that requires them to stay fit enough to chase down a suspect, and socially strategic enough to deescalate a situation without the option of punctuating the conversation with bullets.
Aren't firearms illegal there? That means the people apprehended/arrested don't have guns, right? So, if our police were to be de-armed, it could be dangerous for them under the present circumstances.
Besides firearms being restricted, the attitude toward authority and toward community is different. In the US, the individual’s right to own guns trumps the community’s right to have safe schools for their children. An individual’s right to not wear a face mask trumps the community’s right not to get sick and die. Protecting the community trumps individual rights.

And in the US the attitude toward authority is that the individual has the right to disagree. If a highway patrol pulls you over for speeding and writes you a ticket for going 95 mph. You have the right to argue with him about how fast you were going. Try that anywhere in Europe and you will find yourself behind bars faster than you can protest their right to throw you in the slammer. And protesting authority is seen as a good thing in many circles, even if the only point is to stick it to the authorities. How many people showed up to support Cliven Bundy in breaking federal law?

Don’t believe me about arguing about a ticket? I lived in Europe and in getting a driver’s license, they warned us, people, you are not in the US. Here people do not argue with the police. They just don’t. And the quickest way to go to jail is to show disrespect to the police.

And being armed doesn’t protect police in situations where respect for authority does. My brother in law was a cop killed in the line of duty and in Great Britain, he would never have been shot over a stupid traffic ticket. A traffic ticket turned into a murder charge. All because a** hat ‘Mericans think they should be exempt from obeying the law and being arrested is an affront to their rights. Yeah, it was a Cliven Bundy type who killed him.

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Random
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Re: What To Do About The Police

Post by Random » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:17 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:54 am
Random wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:00 pm
Aren't firearms illegal there?
Good point. Their mass murderers have to resort to using knives, so they only kill the number of people you can count on one hand, rather than mowing them down by the dozens.
My point was not how many people ordinary citizens can kill. My point was that if a law was enacted now that did not allow police to be armed with guns, they would be in danger, because as it stands right now, the ordinary citizen has access to a lot of different firearms.
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Random
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Re: What To Do About The Police

Post by Random » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:26 am

alas wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:20 pm
Besides firearms being restricted, the attitude toward authority and toward community is different. . . . .

And in the US the attitude toward authority is that the individual has the right to disagree. . .

Don’t believe me about arguing about a ticket? I lived in Europe and in getting a driver’s license, they warned us, people, you are not in the US. Here people do not argue with the police. They just don’t. And the quickest way to go to jail is to show disrespect to the police.

And being armed doesn’t protect police in situations where respect for authority does. My brother in law was a cop killed in the line of duty and in Great Britain, he would never have been shot over a stupid traffic ticket.
I didn't know that about Europe. In this country, I don't think we could get to that point very easily or very quickly. In fact, I think the country would have to dissolve and a new one put in its place for that mindset to be here in the United States.

P. S. I have never argued with a policeman who pulled me over or, for that matter, any policeman at all.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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