A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Each day, for the rest of May, please share your honest response to each temple recommend question, based on what you believe right now.
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#9
Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
Personal thought:
The Lord’s church has always emphasized the importance of being honest, as well as the proponents of being truthful:
The 13th article of faith (that I memorized in Primary) begins with “We believe in being honest, true”.
One of the Ten Commandments includes “Thou shalt not bear false witness” (and lds.org adds: “Bearing false witness is another form of dishonesty.”)
Only with a signed recommend may I enter the temple and complete saving ordinances for others and myself.
-May I hide the truth during my multiple temple recommend interviews? No.
-May I skip some of the questions? No.
-May I mislead my Priesthood leaders during the interviews? No.
I must state the complete truth, with consistency, to all involved.
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Shouldn’t the only “true and living church upon the face of the whole earth” have the same standard? Yes.
It should state the complete truth, with consistency, to all involved.
But in regards to JS plural marriage and other church history, the leadership of the church has misled me to understand that all I have been taught, and all that I have learned, was all that there was to know, and that it was the complete truth.
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Prophet Gordon B Hinckley said:
“Half truths are used to mislead under the representation that they are whole truths.”
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Elder Dallin H Oaks said:
“A lie is not always told in so many words. It may be a creature of concealment or a misrepresentation by action or a half-truth.”
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So I ask the church itself:
Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
Could you successfully pass a temple recommend interview?
If you say yes, you have deceived yourself.
If you say no, you have deceived us.
http://www.mormonwounds.com/home/blog/
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#9
Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
Personal thought:
The Lord’s church has always emphasized the importance of being honest, as well as the proponents of being truthful:
The 13th article of faith (that I memorized in Primary) begins with “We believe in being honest, true”.
One of the Ten Commandments includes “Thou shalt not bear false witness” (and lds.org adds: “Bearing false witness is another form of dishonesty.”)
Only with a signed recommend may I enter the temple and complete saving ordinances for others and myself.
-May I hide the truth during my multiple temple recommend interviews? No.
-May I skip some of the questions? No.
-May I mislead my Priesthood leaders during the interviews? No.
I must state the complete truth, with consistency, to all involved.
-
Shouldn’t the only “true and living church upon the face of the whole earth” have the same standard? Yes.
It should state the complete truth, with consistency, to all involved.
But in regards to JS plural marriage and other church history, the leadership of the church has misled me to understand that all I have been taught, and all that I have learned, was all that there was to know, and that it was the complete truth.
-
Prophet Gordon B Hinckley said:
“Half truths are used to mislead under the representation that they are whole truths.”
-
Elder Dallin H Oaks said:
“A lie is not always told in so many words. It may be a creature of concealment or a misrepresentation by action or a half-truth.”
-
So I ask the church itself:
Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
Could you successfully pass a temple recommend interview?
If you say yes, you have deceived yourself.
If you say no, you have deceived us.
http://www.mormonwounds.com/home/blog/
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- Posts: 1244
- Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:52 pm
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
As much as safety will permit.
So, this could possibly be a matter of safety.
Yes
So, this could possibly be a matter of safety.
Yes
At 70 years-old, my older self would tell my younger self to use the words, "f*ck off" much more frequently. --Helen Mirren
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Yes, except for a few of those questions you just asked me!
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Yes, unless we're taking it as some hyper binary state where the smallest deflection or white lie means one isn't honest. For instance, as part of my spiel at work I often respond that I'm doing good. I say this even if I don't actually think my day is good, simply because it's part of the polite fiction of business-customer interactions in which pretty much nobody wants to listen to an employee complain to them about their day.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.
- Just This Guy
- Posts: 1541
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- Location: Almost Heaven
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
I try to be as honest as I can. Doesn't always work, but I at least try.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
I was sometimes a bit bothered answering this one back in the day. I did "borrow" a pen from work a couple months ago, ya know? But I do my best, so I'll answer: Yes.
Now I'd like to answer: "Comparing my own honesty to that of the LDS Corporation, and almost 200 years of 'Carefully Worded Denials', I have no problem saying that I am honest in my dealings with my fellowmen. Much, MUCH more honest than the LDS Corporation has ever been."
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus
IDKSAF -RubinHighlander
Gave up who I am for who you wanted me to be...
IDKSAF -RubinHighlander
Gave up who I am for who you wanted me to be...
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Yes, this is one of the few questions I can easily answer. As has been pointed out, the lack of transparency on the other questions is an issue but this is simply another paradox of being an undercover unbeliever.
- Silver Girl
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Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Hypocrisy describes this question so well. So perfectly. This was one of the issues I emphasized when I left the church. The corporation expected honesty from me, and from all members (at least in theory it did), but it did not return that courtesy in kind.
Yes, I am honest in my dealings with my fellow man (and woman, and children, and whatever).
When I learned the church had lied to me, I had a very traumatic meltdown that was primarily prompted by the knowledge that a church I had trusted and loved had been so dishonest. I am talking about violent crying for hours, heaving sobs, and an inability to even speak coherently. That is what the church's dishonesty can do to people.
Yes, I am honest in my dealings with my fellow man (and woman, and children, and whatever).
When I learned the church had lied to me, I had a very traumatic meltdown that was primarily prompted by the knowledge that a church I had trusted and loved had been so dishonest. I am talking about violent crying for hours, heaving sobs, and an inability to even speak coherently. That is what the church's dishonesty can do to people.
.
.
Silver Girl is sailing into the future. She is no longer scared.
.
Silver Girl is sailing into the future. She is no longer scared.
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Enough to say Yes without feeling guilty about saying Yes.
Happy Dissenter
- Can of Worms
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:37 pm
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Yes*
* the exception being trivial matters to protect feelings. I'll tell people I think they look great if it looks like they need a boost even though they don't, I'll tell them their baby is cute even if it isn't, and I'll fabricate allergies to get out of eating stuff.
* the exception being trivial matters to protect feelings. I'll tell people I think they look great if it looks like they need a boost even though they don't, I'll tell them their baby is cute even if it isn't, and I'll fabricate allergies to get out of eating stuff.
“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” Winston Churchill
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
I think this question may actually be the best test of what kind of people end up having testimony issues. Anyone who watches the news in Utah knows that a lot of people who get caught ripping off their neighbors turn out to be active recommend holders. I'm sure they have no problem answering this question. I used to really wrack my brain trying to think of the tiniest infractions. One time a mechanical pencil from work actually made me seriously consider saying no. Another time the counselor who was interviewing me could see the wheels spinning in my head and said, "let me help you out with this one. The answer is yes."
I think there's a personality thing here that also applies to our expectations of the church. If you tell me Joseph Smith could translate Egyptian I expect that to be true, damn it. Then when you say he really couldn't but it doesn't matter? I can't just let that slide.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Same ^Just This Guy wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2017 7:19 am I try to be as honest as I can. Doesn't always work, but I at least try.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound
- Mormorrisey
- Posts: 1425
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:54 pm
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
I'm big on this one. In fact, I've lost jobs, had problems in relationships, and definitely my relationship with the church has suffered BECAUSE I've been honest. In fact, because I'm honest, I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't get my TR renewed. If only the church was as honest with me.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Yes. I am much more honest now than I was when I was fully active in the church.
“This is the best part of the week!” – Homer Simpson
“It’s the longest possible time before more church!” – Lisa Simpson
“It’s the longest possible time before more church!” – Lisa Simpson
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Yes, I'm honest. That is why I don't qualify for a Temple Recommend right now. This is why I will sit outside the Temple, while my family members go in there-- without me.
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Ironically, yes except for at church when I have to hide my true feelings and in the TR interview where I would love to be 100% honest but can't for fear of repercussions to my family.
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Fellow man: yes
Corporations: not always.
Big difference for me between relationships with humans, and transactions with a entities that have no other purpose than to use me for profit.
Corporations: not always.
Big difference for me between relationships with humans, and transactions with a entities that have no other purpose than to use me for profit.
At the halfway home. I'm a full-grown man. But I'm not afraid to cry.
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
Yes.#9
Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
I won't make a comment about the Corp's honesty with us. It has probably been said several times in the posts in this thread (I still don't read the answers until after I've given mine, so that my words will really be my own - even though I have a lot of, "Dang! I should have said that!" moments).
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.
Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK
Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK
Re: A different Q15 --------- Question #9 (Hypocrisy at its best)
The church wants the outside world to view members as being honest people. I think this question was specifically added to address business and neighborly relationships. It talks about our "dealings" which I think of as business dealings or agreements. Mormons shouldn't rip people off. We are overthinking it when we suppose honesty means to state aloud every thought that comes to mind i.e. Yes those pants make you look fat.
Asking the question implies that fraudsters should not get a TR, that the church doesn't condone fraud. But like in the associations questions, do you think that dishonest people will answer this question honestly?