Son came out as transgender. Let the roller coaster ride begin!

[PapaDragon]

Hi gang, I'm a regular contributor but I'm using this alternate account to discuss something very personal and sensitive in order to add an additional layer of anonymity for the sake of family members.

DW and I have had suspicions that our son might be gay but, despite us giving him many opportunities to discuss it, he has never shared anything with us. Well last weekend he dropped the bomb. Not gay but transgender and looking forward to starting hormone therapy soon. We were surprised but not shocked. Surprised because we thought a trans girl who was born male was more easily identified by an early history of playing with dolls, dressing up, etc. Not shocked because suddenly the long hair, experiments with nails, affinity for stuffed toys and colorful shoes and scarves made more sense.

I had long ago committed to being 100% supportive of our son (sorry, I'm not ready to use daughter, she, her yet - but I'm preparing myself to cross that bridge once he starts dressing female and using a female name). TBM DW was pretty shaken but quickly adopted the attitude of support and love above all. There's been a lot of "screw 'em if they're too small-hearted and narrow-minded to deal with it" talk between us lately. He has his own place, a good income and is (barely) an adult, so there's nothing we could do to stand in the way anyway except be a-holes about it and add more stress to an already stressful situation, but instead we have decided to do as much as we can to help things go smoothly.

We know a sh!tstorm is looming on the horizon when the news eventually filters down to family, ward, friends. Relationships are going to change and I fear a lot of hurt coming our way. I sent DW links to Mama Dragons and other support organizations but she insists that she doesn't need a support group, that she is committed to being a one-woman support group, but I really think she needs to find some new friends who truly understand her situation.

First Question: Any suggestions about how to get DW interested in reaching out for support? Mama Dragons looks like a great organization from what I can see. Maybe it's just a matter of giving her time to digest it all so she won't be overwhelmed?

Second question: what about us Papa Dragons? I would love to have the option of talking to other men in my situation but I haven't been able to find any kind of equivalent organization.

[Anon70]

I don't know of any organizations for dads but just wanted to tell you, you and your wife are awesome. Good job on putting love first!

[LaMachina]

We're in the same boat with a younger child. We haven't joined any mormon themed support group so I can't speak to them but there should be a ton of secular support out there for you. We're Canadian so depending where you are it may differ but there should be many local LGBTQ support groups on the Google.

Good luck! I think you'll find people a lot more supportive then you might anticipate but it definitely is a bit of a roller coaster!

[Give It Time]

We're in the same boat with a younger child. We haven't joined any mormon themed support group so I can't speak to them but there should be a ton of secular support out there for you. We're Canadian so depending where you are it may differ but there should be many local LGBTQ support groups on the Google.

Good luck! I think you'll find people a lot more supportive then you might anticipate but it definitely is a bit of a roller coaster!

I'm in a similar boat. Still trying to figure out how to negotiate this. I just love my son, whatever choice he makes on this. That's it.

[wtfluff]

Second question: what about us Papa Dragons? I would love to have the option of talking to other men in my situation but I haven't been able to find any kind of equivalent organization.

Dragon Dads on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DragonDads/

If you don't have a FaceCrack account, try: thedragondads@gmail.com

[SeeNoEvil]

Your post brought tears to my eyes. Your child is very lucky to have not one but 2 amazing and open minded and supportive parents. Keep us posted. Sending hugs to you and your family {{{PapaDragon}}}

[alas]

My daughter is in the LGBT community, so she knows several transgender women. She has supported them through transition, and seen a few of the problems that transitioning causes. I feel kind of funny passing anything on, because it is all second hand. I have no idea how much applies only to the friends of my daughter as individuals and how much might apply to others.

So, from her perspective, her words on some of the things.

1. The transitioning person doesn't know what the hell they are doing. Well, consider if you suddenly had to act like the opposite gender after being socialized into a gender that just didn't fit you. So, you know inside that you are a girl, but you had to learn how to act like a boy, and now finally you get to act like who you really are, but you don't know how. So much of socialized behavior is not conscious behavior, but just how we are trained. No one ever supported you acting like a girl and in fact it was socially punished. Now, suddenly, you are expected to act like a girl, and acting like a guy gets socially punished. Confusing. She had one friend, let's call him Robert and after transition Robin. My daughter said she loved Robert, but just couldn't stand Robin. She was insecure, bitchy, moody, and kept accusing people of not accepting her. But after a year as Robin, this behavior changed and she was more secure in her identity.

2. Family needs to grieve for the son they lost before they can embrace the daughter they gained. Sure, she is still the same person, sort of. What my daughter saw, was the person transitioning seeing the grieving for the son who was no longer a son, and felt terrible rejection. So, the transitioning person has to understand the parental grief for their son as normal and not at all a rejection of the daughter they were gaining. So, for parents, either explain that it is not a rejection of the "new" daughter, but just an adjustment, or keep your grief for the child you are "losing" to yourself. One of my daughter's friends was an only son, and the father had a really hard time accepting that he now had four daughters. So, this father should have kept his grief for his "no longer a son" to himself and not kept dumping it on his transgender daughter.

3. Hooking up with the LGBT community is essential for the person transitioning. My daughter says they will lose cisgender friends. And she is pretty cynical about that.

I have met some of my daughter's friends, both before transitioning and after, but not their parents.

For me, I never felt any connection to Mama Dragons. There were few mothers of lesbians, let alone older partnered lesbians. It was almost all about teen boys who were gay and supporting them in a church that was antagonistic. Well, my daughter is out of the church, 40 years old, married. The group was all believing members struggling to accept what the church says is sin. So, try it, but my experience was that as a NOM, I just didn't relate.

[PapaDragon]

Thank you all for your feedback and support!

they will lose cisgender friends. And she is pretty cynical about that.

Alas, can you clarify this? cisgender is not a term I'm familiar with.

For me, I never felt any connection to Mama Dragons. There were few mothers of lesbians, let alone older partnered lesbians. It was almost all about teen boys who were gay and supporting them in a church that was antagonistic. Well, my daughter is out of the church, 40 years old, married. The group was all believing members struggling to accept what the church says is sin. So, try it, but my experience was that as a NOM, I just didn't relate.

Thanks for this insight. you're helping me realize that maybe I should be looking for non-religious trans-specific support group to try to keep the religious complexity out of the mix.

[alas]

Cisgender is for those whose gender identity matches the sex they were assigned at birth--- so anyone not transsexual. But I see her point about those who are friends with someone, then they decide to change genders. Our society, especially Mormon society does not allow cross sex or cross gender friendships. So if two young men are friends, the friend is going to have a difficult time staying friends because it then becomes a friendship with a person of the opposite gender. Within the LGBT community, there are lots of cross gender friendships because sexual attraction is not an issue between a gay guy and a lesbian. So, my daughter could become friends with a guy who was pre transition trans girl and stay friends through her transition. But the childhood guy friends usually freaked out.

If you are in an area where there are secular support groups for parents of trans kids, I would recommend that over the Mormon identified Mama and Papa dragons, who are dealing more with homosexual children. At least, that was my experience with Mama Dragons, that they were more focused on teenaged gay boys and keeping them from feeling rejected by God because of their orientation. They were not yet ready to deal with what about same gender marriage and the mandatory excommunication that goes with that. But then, I was ahead of the curve and Mama Dragons didn't exist when my daughter first came out, which would have been when a support group would have been most useful. So, between the being different in my child's gender, age, and my own lack of Mormonism, I didn't fit, nor did I really need a support group at that point. There didn't seem to be any parents of transsexual kids in the group, but then I checked it out a couple of years ago, so things may have progressed.

Now, you have me feeling some guilt because I am grateful my daughter is lesbian and not trans. That just feels more difficult to deal with to me.

[achilles]

Papa Dragon: you and your wife are in a position to be the most important advocates for your new daughter.

I agree that it's important to recognize that you will grieve for the lost son, and I think it's probably OK to let her know that. In a very loving way. That grieving is not personal, but very real. So it kind of makes your emotional experience more complex.

People who are transgender are among the most maligned and misunderstood folks in our society. The zeal with which so many have pushed for the "bathroom bills", and for our esteemed President to ban them from choosing to serve and sacrifice for their country in the armed forces, is truly stunning and disturbing. And there are people who actually feel persecuted merely by a transgender person stating their reality and simply existing! You'll all have to develop a rhino skin.

I am so happy for your new daughter finally being able to openly be who she really has been inside. It is the beginning of enormous healing and opportunities for happiness for her. She will be like a caterpillar entering its cocoon, going through a difficult metamorphosis, but ultimately being able to fly away into the warmth of the sun and the beauty of the world around her. I wish you all the greatest joy!

If you need any support--someone to chat with on the phone or even have lunch, send me a PM. I am a gay man who is trying to find my own happiness, and don't understand the transgender experience very well, but I know about the pain of hiding for so long. Godspeed to you and your new family! And everyone who refuses to accept you can just...well, I shouldn't write those words, but essentially they can just go and try to reproduce with themselves.

[Newme]

PapaDragon,
I think it's good that you're being as loving to your son as possible.
This breaks my heart to share this & I imagine it would break yours also to share it, but I very strongly feel that love is based on truth & helping our children consider as many facts as possible before making such a life-changing decision.

This comes from a man who went through the transgender process:



"I myself was fully sex-reassigned from male to female, and eventually came to accept my birth gender.

I have over 70 years of firsthand life experience, eight years of living as a woman, 20 years of researching the topic, and 12 years of helping others who, like me, found that transitioning and reassignment surgery failed to be proper treatment and want to restore their lives to their birth gender.

Costly, but Not Effective

Transitioning can be expensive—up to $130,000 per person for numerous body-mutilating and cosmetic procedures over many months (or years) to fashion the body to appear as the opposite sex.

Yet, no matter how skilled the surgeon, or how much money is spent, it is biologically impossible to change a man into a woman or a woman into a man. The change is only cosmetic.

The medical community continues to recommend this radical “treatment” in the absence of scientific evidence that people are better off in the long run. This population attempts suicide at a rate of 40 percent.

Even after the full surgical change, they attempt to end their lives, or tragically succeed.

Over 60 percent of this diverse population suffer from co-existing mental disorders."
https://www.google.com/amp/dailysignal. ... trous/amp/

[Give It Time]

My daughter is in the LGBT community, so she knows several transgender women. She has supported them through transition, and seen a few of the problems that transitioning causes. I feel kind of funny passing anything on, because it is all second hand. I have no idea how much applies only to the friends of my daughter as individuals and how much might apply to others.

So, from her perspective, her words on some of the things.

1. The transitioning person doesn't know what the hell they are doing. Well, consider if you suddenly had to act like the opposite gender after being socialized into a gender that just didn't fit you. So, you know inside that you are a girl, but you had to learn how to act like a boy, and now finally you get to act like who you really are, but you don't know how. So much of socialized behavior is not conscious behavior, but just how we are trained. No one ever supported you acting like a girl and in fact it was socially punished. Now, suddenly, you are expected to act like a girl, and acting like a guy gets socially punished. Confusing. She had one friend, let's call him Robert and after transition Robin. My daughter said she loved Robert, but just couldn't stand Robin. She was insecure, bitchy, moody, and kept accusing people of not accepting her. But after a year as Robin, this behavior changed and she was more secure in her identity.

2. Family needs to grieve for the son they lost before they can embrace the daughter they gained. Sure, she is still the same person, sort of. What my daughter saw, was the person transitioning seeing the grieving for the son who was no longer a son, and felt terrible rejection. So, the transitioning person has to understand the parental grief for their son as normal and not at all a rejection of the daughter they were gaining. So, for parents, either explain that it is not a rejection of the "new" daughter, but just an adjustment, or keep your grief for the child you are "losing" to yourself. One of my daughter's friends was an only son, and the father had a really hard time accepting that he now had four daughters. So, this father should have kept his grief for his "no longer a son" to himself and not kept dumping it on his transgender daughter.

3. Hooking up with the LGBT community is essential for the person transitioning. My daughter says they will lose cisgender friends. And she is pretty cynical about that.

I have met some of my daughter's friends, both before transitioning and after, but not their parents.

For me, I never felt any connection to Mama Dragons. There were few mothers of lesbians, let alone older partnered lesbians. It was almost all about teen boys who were gay and supporting them in a church that was antagonistic. Well, my daughter is out of the church, 40 years old, married. The group was all believing members struggling to accept what the church says is sin. So, try it, but my experience was that as a NOM, I just didn't relate.

Thank you for this. I support my son, but it is true. I would grieve his loss. I told him I support him, but to think long and hard and seek therapy before deciding on any change. He agreed. I also referred him to a speech made by some talking head during the Bruce to Caitlin Jenner change. The speech states that Bruce voluntarily took on all the discrimination and oppression that comes with being the second sex. I told my son that, as a woman, that every word on that speech was true.

Then we discussed makeup, high heels and clothes.

[alas]

PapaDragon,
I think it's good that you're being as loving to your son as possible.
This breaks my heart to share this & I imagine it would break yours also to share it, but I very strongly feel that love is based on truth & helping our children consider as many facts as possible before making such a life-changing decision.

This comes from a man who went through the transgender process:



"I myself was fully sex-reassigned from male to female, and eventually came to accept my birth gender.

I have over 70 years of firsthand life experience, eight years of living as a woman, 20 years of researching the topic, and 12 years of helping others who, like me, found that transitioning and reassignment surgery failed to be proper treatment and want to restore their lives to their birth gender.

Costly, but Not Effective

Transitioning can be expensive—up to $130,000 per person for numerous body-mutilating and cosmetic procedures over many months (or years) to fashion the body to appear as the opposite sex.

Yet, no matter how skilled the surgeon, or how much money is spent, it is biologically impossible to change a man into a woman or a woman into a man. The change is only cosmetic.

The medical community continues to recommend this radical “treatment” in the absence of scientific evidence that people are better off in the long run. This population attempts suicide at a rate of 40 percent.

Even after the full surgical change, they attempt to end their lives, or tragically succeed.

Over 60 percent of this diverse population suffer from co-existing mental disorders."
https://www.google.com/amp/dailysignal. ... trous/amp/

This is am important perspective, and thank you for being brave enough to share.

When I was taking graduate classes, (keep in mind that this was before Noah and the flood) the professor (PHD psychologist) had worked with with the trans community in San Antonio, and he lectured us on the idea that before sex reassignment surgery, the person should (1) go with hormonal therapy only for ten years while living as the gender they wish to transition to, (2) have thorough psych evaluations, (3) resolve any other mental health issues, and did I mention that he thought they should live for at least ten years as the gender they wish to transition to. He said that too many people have the surgery and then are not happy because of several possible reasons and it is the person evaluating them' job to weed out people who are not good candidates for surgery. He said, and this may be just his opinion, because I haven't heard it any where else, that just as there are bisexuals, there are people half way between a male identity and a female identity. ??? Like I said, never heard this anywhere else. But to continue, While they are living as male, they feel a strong desire to live as female because that half of their being is repressed. But once they transition, they feel the other part of their identity as the one that is repressed and long to live as a male again. End of crazy theory, but I found it interesting enough to remember. He said that is why the extensive psych evaluation is important, to find out where they are on the scale. He emphasized that some transsexual people are not good candidates for surgery. He says that when he was evaluating people before surgery, that he recommended that over half of them either wait, or not undergo surgery at all. He screened for those who might end up unhappy, had other mental health issues, were just terribly unhappy and thought being somebody else would solve it, or for some other reason might not adjust well as the opposite gender.

Transitioning does not solve all problems. Now, imagine this professor standing on his desk as he practically yells at the class, "just as you and I have life issues, transgender people have life issues. Transitioning does not solve all problems and if the transgender person thinks it will, he/she is a lousy candidate for surgery."


Now, on a side note about this professor, he was the guy who the Mormon church had selected to work as psychologist for any missionaries who were having mental health issues. The church had him under contract for all missionaries who needed any kind of psychological help or eval to stay or go home. But in front of our class at a private Catholic university, he would blast Mormons as being slightly crazy to begin with. I wish I could remember some of his exact quotes, because it was a hoot being a NOM and having him tell stories about crazy Mormons. I didn't dare say I was raised Mormon, cause I didn't want him thinking I was slightly crazy. But he was correct about things like Mormons and perfectionism, and blind obedience, and how the polygamy in our history gives us sex hang ups.

[dogbite]

I've ridden this roller coaster a few years now. Ask, I'll answer to the limits of what I consider private. It's a highly variable coaster.

Public school is probably the craziest part of it on my personal coaster ride. Except the suicide attempt....

[PapaDragon]

If you need any support--someone to chat with on the phone or even have lunch, send me a PM.

Thanks Achilles, I would love to meet you for lunch sometime. I'll PM you.

[PapaDragon]

I've ridden this roller coaster a few years now.

Thanks, dogbite. Can you share the basic details here or should I PM you?

[deacon blues]

Your post brought tears to my eyes. Your child is very lucky to have not one but 2 amazing and open minded and supportive parents. Keep us posted. Sending hugs to you and your family {{{PapaDragon}}}

This. I love it when others express my thoughts better than I could.

[PapaDragon]

Concerning gender reassignment, our child has no plans in the foreseeable future for such a radical step. We're talking about a very logical person here, someone who plans things carefully and thoroughly. He (nope, still can't do it) is going to begin seeing a therapist immediately and is planning on starting hormone therapy in a few months, with the expectation that this initial process could take several years.

[PapaDragon]

Your post brought tears to my eyes. Your child is very lucky to have not one but 2 amazing and open minded and supportive parents. Keep us posted. Sending hugs to you and your family {{{PapaDragon}}}

This. I love it when others express my thoughts better than I could.

Thank you both so much. I am amazed at how well DW is handling it. Today we've been going through old photo albums and scrapbooks and rejoicing that we have been blessed with such a beautiful and loving child.

[dogbite]

Let your child determine when and where to reveal to others her status, but this isn't an absolute rule. It will slip sometimes and that's OK. Friends and family will ask how your kids are and you'll make a she statement instead of he. They'll ask an avalanche of questions out of well-intentioned curiosity. Have a good conversation stopper ready. Mine is usually along the lines of "She doesn't appreciate me speaking about her business in her absence."

Rigid Mormons ask the stupidest questions. Did you pray about it in the temple? Are you letting her transition? How are you stopping her? So many questions that aren't their business. Merely affirm to them that you are assured in all the right ways that you are doing the right thing. As to how to handle church, that was a non-issue in our case. Neither myself nor she were active. The less involvement the better imho. Tell the church nothing is my rule, it's not their business. I don't think my HT knows after all these years yet. My tdaughter never attends when the HTs come. Let her decide her involvement if she wants it. But be ready for guilt trips if she participates.

Insurance is a big deal. The puberty blockers are expensive and coverage is not universal. If you're insured by a plan based outside of Utah you're likely in better standing. If they are not covered, Lupron has a program to discount the costs of some of the purchases in a year as do most pricey pharmaceuticals. The implants are about the same cost/year and less hassle, more even blocking as well.

Estrogen itself is pretty inexpensive.

You'll probably also have to deal with psychologically active prescriptions from the therapist or the doctor. These can have a wide range of effectiveness and side effects, including suicide attempts, emotional numbness and more. Don't be afraid to try different things until you find one that works best. Dosages are worth experimenting with as well. Similarly, trying different therapists/doctors as needed. Also verify the process for leaving one drug. Many of these cannot be stopped safely cold turkey or take weeks to reach effective levels as you start them.

Take it one drug at a time to see how things react. Depending where you start with therapist or doctor will determine this. Add only one new drug per visit so you can keep tabs on interactions.

You'll hear things from therapy you had no clue about or had no clue that it mattered. Be honest and supportive. Practice communication, even things you think are stupid. Don't be afraid of family sessions or your child in a private session with a good therapist.

How the school handles the bathroom and talk is an issue. States like Texas and Carolinas and Utah have laws. School districts have policies for good or bad as well. If you're in Utah, pm me for some other ideas. Talk with your school counselor EARLY. You should be ready to fill out an IEP so have your doctor or therapist fill out the forms early as well. It may not come to that, but school calendars and doctors calendars synch up very poorly.

Support groups, well thats not my thing. PFLAG is usually a reasonable starting point. Your doctor or therapist will have other recommendations.

Your child's group of friends will shift. Expect a much more colorful group of friends. However, online communications is a good thing and can alleviate some other concerns. Also you should expect a wider age range than you are accustomed to. This has pros and cons, just pay attention to relationships that might bloom across difficult or inappropriate age gaps.

You'll likely have an encounter or two with the police. This can be for odd reasons you never thought of, but usually relate to underage sexuality in the peer group. Or if a friend becomes pregnant or STD positive, or runs away, or self harm issues.