(2nd Update) - Have no doubt that if you give the Church enough rope,...

[Hermey]

they will eventually trade it in for pair of cleats and stomp all over their collective naughty part. Every.Dang.Time.

Background:
My daughter is 17 1/2 yrs. old and a senior in high school. She’s a hard worker and a 4.0 straight ‘A’ student with a full load of AP and honors classes, theatre, dance, voice lessons, and held a part-time job in the summer time as well. She gives us no trouble, is kind to those around her, and a good friend. As a parent, I truly, truly couldn’t ask for more. She attended release-time seminary during her freshman year and then early morning seminary part of her sophomore year due to class scheduling conflicts. Ultimately, she stopped attending seminary half way through the year as it was too much with her already overloaded schedule. It was physically and emotionally taking a toll on her, and the priority in our house is education first. Since she isn’t going to eventually be attending a church-owned school, seminary was of no benefit and also becoming a drag on her academically. So, buh-bye seminary. She attends church when able (more often SS and YW, than Sacrament meeting) and weeknight YW activities when her schedule permits.

Current Situation:
Last week after church she met with the YWP to review the completion of all her hard work and effort. (Keep in mind there have been regular interviews/PPI’s with the YWP and other leaders to see how she’s doing and her progress during the course of her involvement in the YW’s program.) When the meeting was over, the YWP told her she wasn’t going to get her award because she didn’t attend Seminary. If she didn’t agree with that, she could try talking to the Bishop. As stated to her by both the YWP and the Bishop, they want her to “prove to herself and feel like she’s really earned it.”

What the fluff?

Fast forward to this week. The Bishop pulled my wife aside for an impromptu meeting on Sunday. He told my wife that my daughter would have to attend church every week for the next several months and essentially do a research project on church related topics in order to get her award.

What in the actual fluff??

My wife texted me and said she thought the meeting went better than she anticipated, the Bishop a good guy, and that she would tell me more at home. Upon (my) returning from St. Judas, my wife was out VTing. This afforded me the opportunity to ask my daughter how things went. I could tell from her body language that she wasn’t okay. She broke down in tears and told me what had happened in YW’s today. Apparently, she was singled out by the YWP during the entire lesson. As each point was made, she was called out in a passive aggressive way with comments (directed) at her. When class was over, the YWP said to my daughter, “_________, I hope you didn’t feel like I was picking on you.”

Seriously?

Note: Again, keep in mind that my kids know that everything they do is under a magnifying glass at church because of me being Satan. When she attends, she participates and does whatever they ask. She isn’t on her phone either. The YWP is also the wife of the SP, who is a former bishop of my wife’s ward and I served as clerk for him his entire time and for the next bishop as well. The Stake YWPresidency was also all in attendance in the class. One of them is my daughter’s voice teacher and my daughter thinks the world of her.

My thoughts on this:
As my daughter worked on the requirements over the years, she could have taken short-cuts many a time. She always refused to take the easy way out and did it by the book. That’s just who she is. My daughter more than earned that award. I know it, my wife knows it, and my daughter knows it. Also, my wife was unaware of what had happened in the class. Now she’s pissed too.

At first, my wife felt like the Bishop was reasonable and trying to meet half-way. I vehemently disagreed. The YW leaders met with her repeatedly every quarter over the course her years in YW. They would check on her progress and make notes about what and how she was doing. As her “leaders”, and I use that term very loosely, they had an obligation and responsibility to address the seminary issue early on. They absolutely KNEW she wasn’t attending. Yet, they chose to remain silent this whole time. They waited to the very end before dropping that bomb on her.

What if I had done something similar to the YWP’s sons when I was in YM’s & Scouting as a leader? There would have been hell to pay. I guarantee it.

What I need from you all here on the board:
My question is how is the best way to handle it? I will be speaking with both the Bishop and the YWP separately.

My daughter knows she earned it, but that isn’t the point here. She kept her end of the deal and she expects them to keep theirs. Ultimately, she was doing this for her mom and her grandmother. She really doesn’t give a rats’s ass about the 50-cent necklace, nor does she have any belief in the church. This was the final straw. She’s done. (#TenderMercies)

[Enoch Witty]

I enjoyed your post. As for what to do? I dunno. Since she doesn't care about the award herself, I'd say just let it play out. It's like you said: this was your daughter's last straw. They could either give her the award, or just make it even last-strawier.

[Linked]

Man, that must be infuriating. I assume you would rather her not be there in the first place, and then they go and pull this crap and hurt your daughter. It sounds like your daughter is awesome, working hard and handling a difficult situation admirably.

My question is how is the best way to handle it? I will be speaking with both the Bishop and the YWP separately.

From what you have shared it sounds like you have an open and shut case of what should have been done. I recommend you concisely lay out how you see it for the Bishop and YWP, similar to what you have done here. Sometimes people do stupid things because they don't realize what they are doing and I think this might be one of those cases. If it is, then there is no need to get angry or emotional about it, just walk them through how unfair they are being by bringing this up at the very end, how hard your daughter has worked, and how much their efforts will backfire. If you can show them what they don't realize hopefully they will have a moment of understanding and fix what they screwed up.

Also, you hinted that the ward considers you Satan, so you may have to diffuse some of that tension before your discussion or they might put up walls against anything you say. If it gets combative then they could consider opposing what you do as righteousness, and all the stories about standing firm for righteousness will prop them up against doing the right thing.

[Hermey]

I enjoyed your post. As for what to do? I dunno. Since she doesn't care about the award herself, I'd say just let it play out. It's like you said: this was your daughter's last straw. They could either give her the award, or just make it even last-strawier.

True, she doesn't care about the award for herself. But what she cared about was doing it for her grandmother who is 83. Much of my daughter's effort was for her.

[Hermey]

Man, that must be infuriating. I assume you would rather her not be there in the first place, and then they go and pull this crap and hurt your daughter. It sounds like your daughter is awesome, working hard and handling a difficult situation admirably.

Also, you hinted that the ward considers you Satan, so you may have to diffuse some of that tension before your discussion or they might put up walls against anything you say. If it gets combative then they could consider opposing what you do as righteousness, and all the stories about standing firm for righteousness will prop them up against doing the right thing.

Haha! Yup, I'm okay if they don't fix it. We're gonna do something nice for her. As for ward tension, the ward is scared of me and creates a wide birth around me any time they can. You can't fix stupid


However, I am thinking of sending this note over to the Bishop....

(insert Bishop's first name here),

Just a thought here on the situation with my daughter. I just want to say thank you to you, and especially to (insert YWP first name here). You all have missed an opportunity and inadvertently (and successfully, I might add) done what I couldn’t do in six years.

Cheers!
Hermey

[Fifi de la Vergne]

My first question would be, what does your daughter want to come out of this? Does she want grandma to be able to come and see her receive the award? Would she rather the whole thing be forgotten now that she's been publicly called out and embarrassed? Would she like an apology? People are so different -- I would start with what she wants.

If she wants the award, I would push, with as much logic and determination and as little emotion as possible, to make that happen.

If she wants it forgotten, I'd not push for the award, but would probably write a letter and send it to both YWP & bishop -- after a cooling off period and a couple of drafts.

There's no doubt that they moved the goalposts on your daughter, but hard to know why. In spite of what we like to say about the members being better than the church, sometimes it's just not the case.

[Hermey]

My first question would be, what does your daughter want to come out of this? Does she want grandma to be able to come and see her receive the award? Would she rather the whole thing be forgotten now that she's been publicly called out and embarrassed? Would she like an apology? People are so different -- I would start with what she wants.

If she wants the award, I would push, with as much logic and determination and as little emotion as possible, to make that happen.

If she wants it forgotten, I'd not push for the award, but would probably write a letter and send it to both YWP & bishop -- after a cooling off period and a couple of drafts.

There's no doubt that they moved the goalposts on your daughter, but hard to know why. In spite of what we like to say about the members being better than the church, sometimes it's just not the case.

Bottom line is that she wants what she earned. It's the principle of the thing to her. Her plan is to go in to see the Bishop with me there as backup and she will tell him what she expects and why. Beyond that, she can't control what he's going to do. If he's agreeable, then great. If not, she's done.

[Hermey]

Version #2 (slightly modified):

(insert Bishop's first name here),

Just a thought here on the situation with my daughter. I just want to say thank you to you, and especially to (insert YWP first name here). Just like with son #1 and son #2, you all have missed another opportunity and inadvertently (and again successfully, I might add) done what I refrained from doing over the past six years.

Cheers!
Hermey
phone#

[Enoch Witty]

Version #2 (slightly modified):

(insert Bishop's first name here),

Just a thought here on the situation with my daughter. I just want to say thank you to you, and especially to (insert YWP first name here). Just like with son #1 and son #2, you all have missed another opportunity and inadvertently (and again successfully, I might add) done what I refrained from doing over the past six years.

Cheers!
Hermey
phone#

While I might be the type to draft something like this, I'm not the type to send it... but I'm totally the type who'd like to hear the fallout if you do. A very concise yet clear email. Well done.

[Red Ryder]

Go down to the distribution center and buy the award and give it to her yourself. Invite Grandma out to dinner and make it a family celebration.

She's earned it. So give it to her.

[Korihor]

I don't know what to suggest. I don't yet have children in this age category.

Ignore it and it will go away. I'm sorry she's earned it but they're keeping it hostage. Don't fall for their stupid game. I'd wager if she holds out, they might give it to her anyway. They're probably very interested in maintaining numbers and this is low hanging fruit. If they don't give it to her, go to the distribution center, buy the pendant. Then go on a daddy-daughter date and give it to her - saying how proud of her you are and she's earned it in your eyes.

[wtfluff]

I had something similar to this happen with my daughter (the threat to not give her the 50-cent medallion), and I honestly can't remember the exact reason why they did it. (My daughter was NOT the target of any passive-aggressive BS during YW, gladly, though it sounds like it might be a good catalyst for you.)

Turns out that the bishop decided without any prompting on the apostate dad's part to give her the award. And again, I honestly don't know what happened.

During the time period that we thought the award was not coming, we did a little bit of poking around to see if we could acquire a medallion on the "black market". Turns out that was a waste of time.

So my suggestion? No idea. My situation worked out without me getting involved. If you're planning on the meeting with the Bishop hopefully that will work out. Maybe both you and your wife should attend? Hopefully it can happen without too much emotion involved. Just lay out the facts that she did what was asked, and they changed the rules.

No matter what, follow through with this:

We're gonna do something nice for her.

Make sure she knows her parents know how hard she worked, and how much she deserves it. Give her a gift that is actually meaningful to her.

[Red Ryder]

One more thing.

Give the YWP a full verbal spanking for the spiritual abuse she applied to your daughter.

My daughter (same age as yours) got similarly ambushed in a YW combined lesson. My wife lost it and ripped the lady to shreds out in the hall after church. Later that day the Bishop called the YWP in to his office and ripped her to shreds. This lady was known to be impossible yet they still kept her in YW.

Verbal spanking!

[didyoumythme]

I just want to say that the way your daughter is being treated is a prime example of how the church only accepts people who are all in, and do it their way. You won't be accepted if you don't express orthodox belief and tow the line culturally. This is what makes it hard for many of us NOMs. We are made to feel like outsiders for having independent thoughts, worshipping how we see fit, and asking if there are better ways to do things.

Unfortunately, your daughter will continue to be singled out for not attending seminary or Sunday meetings. Members can't accept people who are happy without the full Mormon lifestyle because the cognitive dissonance is too much to handle. They push them away out of self preservation.

Rant over for now.

[Emower]

Sounds like a perfect time to talk to her about how situations like this will come up her whole life. Have a discussion about how to handle it with class and confidence. That might involve her writing the letter. Or it might involve leaving it alone, depends on your daughter. My suggestion is that the whole situation revolves around her and you charging in like a bull might not be the best learning opportunity. It is different if she were younger, but 17 1/2 is plenty old in my opinion to start handling awkward social train wrecks like this.

Go down to the distribution center and buy the award and give it to her yourself. Invite Grandma out to dinner and make it a family celebration.

She's earned it. So give it to her.

This could totally top off whatever she decides to do. This would also underscore how the more important aspect of all this is how she feels, not how she is classified by someone else.

[Hermey]

Hi Everyone,

Hi have enjoyed reading all of you responses thus far. I appreciate all of your insightful comments.

Here is the final version of the email I just sent:

Hi (insert Bishop's first name here),

Just a quick note here on the situation with my daughter. I just want to say thank you to you, and more especially to (insert YWP's first name here). Much like with both son #1 and son #2, all y’all have missed an opportunity and inadvertently (and successfully, I might add) done what I refrained myself from doing over the past six years.

If you want to understand my kids and the why, what, and how, I am always willing to share and discuss those insights. Regardless, the damage is done and you can’t un-ring a bell. Maybe that would help prevent it from inadvertently happening to others. If not, I understand.

Thanks,

Hermey

We will take her to dinner to celebrate her accomplishments, effort and hard work. We'll present her with a nice necklace, one that she can wear with pride. She will handle her business and be the one to set the expectation with the Bishop face-to-face, and I will be there as backup support. As far as grandma is concerned, my daughter earned the award. She lives in another state and wouldn't be here for any presentation in sacrament meeting. So, we're not concerned with that.

As for the Bishop, he'll receive the above email. I like him and will be nice, but I won't mince words if he wants to discuss. I will deal with the YWP directly. However, I don't believe anything will change. Experience has shown that's just how they are as a family.

[SeeNoEvil]

Hermey I am so sorry to hear how your daughter and your family are being treated. Shame on your ward leaders and shame on your Bishop! I know a bit of your history with your church leaders and again I shake my head and rest it in the palm of my hand and sigh. I agree with all the advice given here. I think no matter what you decide you need to remain calm and in control of the situation. With abusers (and the church is an abuser) if they see you all frustrated, angry and in pain then they have won.

I just want to say that the way your daughter is being treated is a prime example of how the church only accepts people who are all in, and do it their way. You won't be accepted if you don't express orthodox belief and tow the line culturally. This is what makes it hard for many of us NOMs. We are made to feel like outsiders for having independent thoughts, worshipping how we see fit, and asking if there are better ways to do things.

Unfortunately, your daughter will continue to be singled out for not attending seminary or Sunday meetings. Members can't accept people who are happy without the full Mormon lifestyle because the cognitive dissonance is too much to handle. They push them away out of self preservation.

Rant over for now.

This!! Sadly, you have hit the nail on the head.

[Anon70]

Hi Everyone,

Hi have enjoyed reading all of you responses thus far. I appreciate all of your insightful comments.

Here is the final version of the email I just sent:

Hi (insert Bishop's first name here),

Just a quick note here on the situation with my daughter. I just want to say thank you to you, and more especially to (insert YWP's first name here). Much like with both son #1 and son #2, all y’all have missed an opportunity and inadvertently (and successfully, I might add) done what I refrained myself from doing over the past six years.

If you want to understand my kids and the why, what, and how, I am always willing to share and discuss those insights. Regardless, the damage is done and you can’t un-ring a bell. Maybe that would help prevent it from inadvertently happening to others. If not, I understand.

Thanks,

Hermey

We will take her to dinner to celebrate her accomplishments, effort and hard work. We'll present her with a nice necklace, one that she can wear with pride. She will handle her business and be the one to set the expectation with the Bishop face-to-face, and I will be there as backup support. As far as grandma is concerned, my daughter earned the award. She lives in another state and wouldn't be here for any presentation in sacrament meeting. So, we're not concerned with that.

As for the Bishop, he'll receive the above email. I like him and will be nice, but I won't mince words if he wants to discuss. I will deal with the YWP directly. However, I don't believe anything will change. Experience has shown that's just how they are as a family.

The necklace from you will have more meaning anyway. I earned that medallion, haven't worn it once since, but wear the jade one my parent got me to celebrate my accomplishments all the time.

And, I can't wait to hear what the bishop's response was.

[wtfluff]

And, I can't wait to hear what the bishop's response was.

Yes. Eagerly awaiting Hermey's Return and Report.

[Silver Girl]

Go down to the distribution center and buy the award and give it to her yourself. Invite Grandma out to dinner and make it a family celebration.

She's earned it. So give it to her.

Aside from the abusive YWP, the main takeaway for me is that she was led to believe she was doing all that was expected of her, and not once was she told this would happen.

I go one-up on RR's idea and buy one of those necklaces (if they're available somewhere - maybe even DI has them), then, on the next F&T Sunday, either you or your wife get up and do the blah-blah thing for a bit, then talk about how blessed and proud you've been so see your DD so faithfully do all that has been expected of her during her HS years to not only work toward the the PP goal but get perfect grades, be Christlike in all she does, and be so accomplished. Then I'd call her up there for a hug (or have her sitting their waiting) and give her the necklace in front of the entire ward. Wear cleats so you can kick the bishop in the shins if he tries to interrupt.

If you can't get the official (and cheap) necklace, buy a good quality gold or silver pendant and have it engraved with something that expresses what a great gift she is to you and your family. In fact, that might be the better idea. That way, nobody can try to stop the presentation, and it will be a valuable gift in every way. It will be a symbol of her parents sticking up for her in public, and sticking it in the faces of those jerks.

She deserves to be celebrated. Go for it.