Joseph Bishop: what does he actually confess?

[Hagoth]

I read through the entire transcript quickly, so I may have missed something. From what I saw he denied the accusation of attempted rape by claiming that he couldn't remember, although he admitted that it was very possible.

What he admitted:

-That he is an addict, but that he has repented many times and never been disciplined, except possibly by not advancing to Seventy. Confessed to a general authority who, apparently, covered up for him.

-Taking a troubled girl home to stay at his home and giving her a back rub at her request

-Having a room in the basement of the MTC, which the interviewer claimed had a bed and video tapes in it, where he sometimes took sister missionaries (but not many details about what went on there).

-Talking inappropriately about his wife's behavior.

-Admiring a woman in her bikini on his mission.

He hinted a lot about having done awful things, but I can see how his words could be construed by a defense attorney as the ramblings of an old man who felt horribly guilty about lustful thoughts and things he ALMOST did (cause, you know, all men who are addicts if they have ever thought about sex).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the guy at all. What comes across in the recording is horrible, but I'm just trying to nail down what exactly he did confess, and what legal loopholes the church will crawl through to paint the predator as a victim or senile old man, and the actual victim as a lair/whore/gold digger.

[oliblish]

Here is something from the transcript on page 34:

Joseph Bishop: And I remember you.
________: Do you remember the other girl with me?
Joseph Bishop: Pardon me?
________: Do you remember the other girl with me? The other one you were grooming?
Joseph Bishop: Her name was ________
________: Yes, that's her last name.
Joseph Bishop: I remember
________: Did you molest her?
Joseph Bishop: Yes.

[consiglieri]

-Admiring a woman in her bikini on his mission.

As long as it's true confessions time, I managed to get hold of a Playboy magazine during my mission.

I did a lot of admiring, too.

[Hagoth]

Here is something from the transcript on page 34:

Joseph Bishop: And I remember you.
________: Do you remember the other girl with me?
Joseph Bishop: Pardon me?
________: Do you remember the other girl with me? The other one you were grooming?
Joseph Bishop: Her name was ________
________: Yes, that's her last name.
Joseph Bishop: I remember
________: Did you molest her?
Joseph Bishop: Yes.

But doesn't he then define that molestation as a back rub at her request? (not that that's ok) If I remember correctly he even says he stopped because he was getting aroused.Or was that a separate occasion?

[LostMormon]

Glad to see you post this, I was just about to make mine own post about this. My grandmother had alzheimer's, and she was so easily confused and manipulated, My parents had to watch her very closely, because anybody could have talked her into believing anything. She would remember bits and pieces, but could never seem to put it all together.

He doesn't seem to remember anything the interviewer is accusing him of, and with alzheimer's especially when somebody is as aggressive as this interviewer was, I think people with alzheimer's can get confused, and think "well maybe that did happen, I don't remember."

I think he remembers that he has done some things that he feels guilty about, such as giving the woman a backrub, and admiring the woman in the sun suit. At one point I think he admits to struggling with masturbation, but he never actually "remembers" or admits to taking this woman into the "basement" and trying to rape her. It will be interesting to see if others do come forward after this gets out.

don't get me wrong, I am not trying to make excuses for the guy, if this really happened, then it's horrible, but I think we have to consider there could be another side to this story.

there were a few things in her story, that seemed a bit far fetched to me, like the hot tub in wyoming where all the leaders would go for a good time, this would be quite the story if it's true, but it seems unlikely.

[Not Buying It]

Someone over on Reddit addressed this better than I could:

Yes, but you're leaving out all of the "oh, were you the one with biker friends? No? Oh, were you the one that had a boob job? No? Well, how about...?" He was trying to remember which victim she was. It's just that trying to rape someone and not being able to maintain an erection was such a common activity for him that one particular incident doesn't stand out in his mind. Why would he remember her specifically? And more importantly, why on earth would be apologize to her unless he knew that what she was saying happened, actually happened? Because in my opinion, he makes it clear that he knows she's telling the truth and that it did actually happen. He never says, "No, that didn't happen, because I've never raped anyone in my life." He just doesn't remember the specific incident she's talking about. Memorable for her, but not for him.

He admits grossly inappropriate behavior. He admits remembering the rape room. He admits that he would be the Harvey Weinstein of Mormonism if people knew. He admits that it would ruin his family's perception of him if they knew. He admits confessing to priesthood leaders. He claims that he was a sex addict. He justifies his behavior (serial rape) every which way he can think of. He tries to get her to sympathize with the fact that being a rapist was hard on him, too. Throughout the interview, he is absolutely admitting to being a serial rapist. He just can't remember trying to rape one specific girl on one specific occasion.

[Hagoth]

Those are all great points but what I'm saying is, sure, he remembered the "rape" room, but he never called it that and he claimed he couldn't remember committing the actual deed. There was talk of video tapes and DVDs, but no mention of what was on those. He agreed with her that he was a bad dude and would be considered a Mormon Harvey Weinstien. I guess I'm just saying that this might not be the smoking gun that it appears to be if it comes down to a legal defense. It's very creepy and there's little doubt he did a lot of bad stuff. He seemed to realize that having it publicized would be very bad for him, but he really confess to many actual accusations beyond talking about boobs. Most of the details come from her and he mostly talks about guilt and repentance. The most specific information seems to be about Carlos Asay covering for him.

[Kishkumen]

, I managed to get hold of a Playboy magazine during my mission.

I did a lot of admiring, too.

Goddammit, why didn't I ever did this on my mission

[Brent]

Given his success in the organization I have one question that will never be answered: Second Annointing?

[Palerider]

-Admiring a woman in her bikini on his mission.

As long as it's true confessions time, I managed to get hold of a Playboy magazine during my mission.

I did a lot of admiring, too.

I am shocked......

[Palerider]

One has to wonder how this woman would even know about a room in the basement of the MTC with the TV and video setup (did she say there was a bed or cot there?) unless he took her down there?

That of itself, being alone in a secluded room with a young female, is a big no no. Not illegal, but according to church policy, a recipe for disaster. So why would he take her or anyone else there? What sort of redeeming explanation could he possibly offer?

[Not Buying It]

I have to say, Hagoth, I do admire you stepping back and looking at the information critically, unlike many of us (myself included) who are making a headlong rush to judgment. Taking time to examine the evidence and ask questions is a good thing.

[Hagoth]

-Admiring a woman in her bikini on his mission.

As long as it's true confessions time, I managed to get hold of a Playboy magazine during my mission.

I did a lot of admiring, too.

I found a Playboy in the garage of one of my mission apartments. Somehow I was able to extract and read the Frank Zappa interview without even glimpsing the centerfold. I also kept the cover and put it on another magazine just to mess with new missionaries. I'd leave it laying around or slide it under the door of the room they were studying in just to see what they did.

[Hagoth]

Given his success in the organization I have one question that will never be answered: Second Annointing?

And what a great question it is.

It's too bad Carlos Asay isn't around anymore. It would be interesting to see him on the witness stand explaining his actions. But, I imagine his memory would be just as patchy as Bishop's.

Totally unrelated: my mom dated him in high school. The correct Sevier County colloquial pronunciation of his name is Carlus.

[Corsair]

Here is something from the transcript on page 34:

Joseph Bishop: And I remember you.
________: Do you remember the other girl with me?
Joseph Bishop: Pardon me?
________: Do you remember the other girl with me? The other one you were grooming?
Joseph Bishop: Her name was ________
________: Yes, that's her last name.
Joseph Bishop: I remember
________: Did you molest her?
Joseph Bishop: Yes.

CSI Salt Lake City is still grappling with these esoteric clues. What could these cryptic messages actually mean?!

[Dravin]

As you say, he never overtly confessed to assaulting the interviewer and if he maintains subsequent denials and tries to play up confusion or coercion along with, "Oh, what I meant was I had lustful thoughts or engaged in immoral behavior, not that I engaged in illegal behavior." Baring additional victims coming forward I'd be surprised if he is convicted.

[Hermey]

Give this a quick read....

A Response to the LDS Newsroom’s Statement on Sexual Abuse in the MTC

[Corsair]

Give this a quick read....

A Response to the LDS Newsroom’s Statement on Sexual Abuse in the MTC

This is the statement that warrants a response from President Newsroom. This whole incident could be the first 20 minutes of a movie sequel to "Spotlight" starring Leah Remini.

[Hagoth]

Yeah, that seems to be how it goes in a state where a theocracy pretty much controls both the government and the press (in light of Peggy Fletcher Stack's admission that even the Tribune has to bow down on certain stories under threat of being cut off).

The church blocked women from attending an all-male meeting with a freakin' garbage truck. What happened? The main instigator was excommunicated.

A local leader switched off the microphone on a little girl and made her sit down and shut up because she admitted that she's a lesbian. It went viral. What happened? The ex-Mos who meet in the common area of the store chain where he works got kicked out.

Utah should adopt a state synthetic compound: Teflon.

[oliblish]

I don't think he admitted to anything illegal. But there are plenty of things that are very creepy and inappropriate.

He admitted that he had confessed to a leader in the past but that he left things out and still felt the need to confess more. I think he has spent his whole life admitting to small things like seeing a woman in a bikini or giving a backrub, but he has had trouble actually talking out loud about other more troubling things that he has done. (Of course this is IMHO).

There are some things that she accuses him of that he says he does not remember. But the important thing is that there are several things that he brings up himself. There are other things that she brings up that she would have no way of knowing except that he told her, and he confirms them. That shows that she is not just making things up.

The interviewer said that he had talked to her about seeing a woman remove her bikini top in a hot tub or hot springs. He confirmed this but said it was in Utah and not Wyoming. I don't think him seeing a topless woman is a big problem, but discussing it alone with a sister missionary while he was MTC president is. How would this come up and why?

Well when did you molest her?
When she was living with us.
Oh God.
I want to tell you about this.
Please do.
[Crosstalk) - came in and she wanted a back rub. And I rubbed her back.
And that got too much...frisky. that's all that ever happened with all, and
with- ... I must have, you know that was hard on- too.

I wish she would have pressed him about the bold statement above. It seems clear that there was more than a backrub going on here. How did it get frisky? Why would he refer to a backrub as molesting her? It sounds like his hands maybe wandered from her back and shoulders.

He is the one who brought up that he had talked to a sister missionary about her breast enhancement. She said it wasn't her but it makes you wonder which sister missionary it was and what ended up happening to her?