Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

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FreeFallin
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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by FreeFallin » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:38 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:42 am
With gas, most cars in the US only require 87 Octane. So spending more for higher octane gas will not improve performance in the fast majority of cases. Because the common method of increasing octane is by mixing in ethanol that has a higher octane value, but less energy per volume, high octane gas in most cars may result in very slightly reduced MPG. The only time you really will see a difference is with cars that are specifically designed to use high octane gas. Those are usually high performance sports cars and high efficiency cars like a Smart For2.

So with gas, you may pay more for higher octane, but it doesn't actually get you anything for your money. But at least you have the choice of how you want to spend your money. With beer, it sounds like you pay the same price, but get less alcohol for it, so you defiantly are getting taken advantage of there.
Thanks for the fuel lesson. You've just saved me some gas money. :)

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wtfluff
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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by wtfluff » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:06 am

Dravin wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:45 am
for those lines it wouldn't surprise me if the costs of having a separate production line swallows up any cost savings they might see from using fewer fermentables.
They don't have "separate" production lines. When a brewery switches from a higher ABV beverage to a lower ABV beverage, they have to "steralize" the entire production line. The issue will be that there won't be enough demand for 4.0% ABV to justify re-working the production line to brew beverages for Utah, and I think there's only one other prohibition-era/"control" state now?



FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:10 am
Explain to me in layman homer simpson terms what the difference in watered down Utah beer is from other states' beer. Like, how many beers to get a buzz with one versus the other, all other things being equal.
It's simple math. For our purposes here, let's use Alcohol By Volume (ABV) for our calculations which means: in a 12 oz. beverage 4% of the volume of the beverage is alcohol, so literally: .48 oz of pure alcohol.

The 4% ABV rule in Utah is only for beverages sold in grocery stores, and in convenience stores. You can go to the state liquor store, and the 4% ABV rule is not in place. In the liquor store, you can get beer from a little above 4% ABV up to 15% ABV and more.

As Dravin already mentioned: "Outside" of Utah, most crappy beers from Budweiser, Miller and Coors are only very slightly above the 4% ABV mark, so the difference is negligible.

So again, going with the simple math: 12 oz of a 15% ABV beer is like drinking more than 36 oz of a 4% ABV beer.

As far as how many beers it takes to get a buzz: That's highly dependent on the individual. YMMV. Ask Kiskumen. :)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by Random » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:51 pm

2bizE wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:00 pm
Question. Does 3.2 alcohol cost less than 5%?
Is it like gas where different octanes cost differently, or is it just the same price.
All I know is that the same alcohol sold in Utah State Liquor Stores costs a whole lot more than alcohol sold in Nevada or Arizona - but that's comparing the same percentages of alcohol.
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HighMaintenance
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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by HighMaintenance » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:21 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:42 am
With gas, most cars in the US only require 87 Octane. So spending more for higher octane gas will not improve performance in the fast majority of cases. Because the common method of increasing octane is by mixing in ethanol that has a higher octane value, but less energy per volume, high octane gas in most cars may result in very slightly reduced MPG. The only time you really will see a difference is with cars that are specifically designed to use high octane gas. Those are usually high performance sports cars and high efficiency cars like a Smart For2.

So with gas, you may pay more for higher octane, but it doesn't actually get you anything for your money. But at least you have the choice of how you want to spend your money. With beer, it sounds like you pay the same price, but get less alcohol for it, so you defiantly are getting taken advantage of there.


Since you put this out here, I've got a question about octane levels. In Arizona the Regular grade gas is 87 octane. When I go to Utah or Idaho, the Regular grade is 85 octane and the mid-grade is 87 octane. Why would that be?

On top of it, we usually have cheaper gasoline ($2.25/gallon) even though there are no refineries in Arizona. It comes in through a pipeline from Texas.
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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:34 pm

HighMaintenance wrote:
Just This Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:42 am
With gas, most cars in the US only require 87 Octane. So spending more for higher octane gas will not improve performance in the fast majority of cases. Because the common method of increasing octane is by mixing in ethanol that has a higher octane value, but less energy per volume, high octane gas in most cars may result in very slightly reduced MPG. The only time you really will see a difference is with cars that are specifically designed to use high octane gas. Those are usually high performance sports cars and high efficiency cars like a Smart For2.

So with gas, you may pay more for higher octane, but it doesn't actually get you anything for your money. But at least you have the choice of how you want to spend your money. With beer, it sounds like you pay the same price, but get less alcohol for it, so you defiantly are getting taken advantage of there.


Since you put this out here, I've got a question about octane levels. In Arizona the Regular grade gas is 87 octane. When I go to Utah or Idaho, the Regular grade is 85 octane and the mid-grade is 87 octane. Why would that be?

On top of it, we usually have cheaper gasoline ($2.25/gallon) even though there are no refineries in Arizona. It comes in through a pipeline from Texas.
The lower octane level is because of the higher altitude.

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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by RubinHighlander » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:16 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:10 am
Explain to me in layman homer simpson terms what the difference in watered down Utah beer is from other states' beer. Like, how many beers to get a buzz with one versus the other, all other things being equal.
It's very subjective to the individual and drinking habits/tolerance. That being said, off the shelf mainstream beers, like Coors, Bud, etc., when purchased out of state or at the liquor store are around 4% as compared to the Utah limit of 3.2%. In terms of buzz there's not a big difference between 3.2 and 4. Most average folks will get a minor buzz off one can of 3.2 beer on an empty stomach but not if they have eaten a meal. One 3.2 beer is not likely to get most to the .05 driving limit, unless they take the breathalyzer with in minutes of drinking. Not only is 3.2 required in the grocery stores, but also when it's purchased directly from the tap at bars and restaurants.

Most craft beers from micro-breweries (not packaged with the 3.2 limit will range from 4 all they way up to 14%. One 7% bottle of beer is definitely a good buzz.

The real issue is the cost of processing and packaging. It's twice the work and additional cost for a brewer to have to put out the product in the lower percentage just for Utah. It limits selection where many brewers just don't want to bother with it. Has there really been some measurable increase in public safety that can be directly attributed to the Utah's 3.2 limit? Like the Zion Curtain in Restaurants (that Utah illuminated last year) was another example of ignorant church broke cronies coming up with dumb ways to try and control what they perceive and evil.

It's refreshing to go to a grocery store out of state, like just over the boarder at the Smith's in Wendover, and see a decent selection of liquor and beer; you feel like an adult again when you can buy a bottle of wine, some crackers and cheese and relax at home with your spouse/domestic partner and not feel one once of guilt or shame!
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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:13 am

HighMaintenance wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:21 pm
Just This Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:42 am
With gas, most cars in the US only require 87 Octane. So spending more for higher octane gas will not improve performance in the fast majority of cases. Because the common method of increasing octane is by mixing in ethanol that has a higher octane value, but less energy per volume, high octane gas in most cars may result in very slightly reduced MPG. The only time you really will see a difference is with cars that are specifically designed to use high octane gas. Those are usually high performance sports cars and high efficiency cars like a Smart For2.

So with gas, you may pay more for higher octane, but it doesn't actually get you anything for your money. But at least you have the choice of how you want to spend your money. With beer, it sounds like you pay the same price, but get less alcohol for it, so you defiantly are getting taken advantage of there.


Since you put this out here, I've got a question about octane levels. In Arizona the Regular grade gas is 87 octane. When I go to Utah or Idaho, the Regular grade is 85 octane and the mid-grade is 87 octane. Why would that be?

On top of it, we usually have cheaper gasoline ($2.25/gallon) even though there are no refineries in Arizona. It comes in through a pipeline from Texas.

Octane is a measurement for how well a fuel resists predetonation due to compression of a fuel air mixture. In short, for a naturally aspirated engine (one not equipped with a turbocharger or supercharger) you can get away with lower octane at a higher altitude because the lower air pressure will result in lower compression in your engine cylinders. Just make sure that you fill up with higher octane gas if you are going to drive down to a much lower altitude. If you do have a turbo, then the lower octane could be a problem.

That being said, I have heard of cases where dealers have tried to void warranties for not using the minimum grade gas that they call for in the owner's manual, so be aware.

As far as pricing, it's interesting that the cost to make and transport the actual gas varies very little throughout the developed world. The gas itself is basically the same price throughout the US, Canada, and most of Europe. There are some additional transportation costs in some rural area, but that is usually minimal. The main thing that drives the wildly varying gas prices is the taxes on it. That's why it's so much more expensive whe you cross the state line into California. They have heavy taxes on it, Of course they are low compared to many European fuel taxes. If you think gas is too high, contact your representatives to reduce the taxes.

Anyway, after that sidebar, back to the booze...
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Dravin
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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by Dravin » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:32 am

wtfluff wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:06 am
They don't have "separate" production lines. When a brewery switches from a higher ABV beverage to a lower ABV beverage, they have to "steralize" the entire production line.
That would make sense given brewing beer is a batch process.
The issue will be that there won't be enough demand for 4.0% ABV to justify re-working the production line to brew beverages for Utah, and I think there's only one other prohibition-era/"control" state now?
To my understanding Minnesota is the only other holdout.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by wtfluff » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:03 pm

Dravin wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:32 am
wtfluff wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:06 am
They don't have "separate" production lines. When a brewery switches from a higher ABV beverage to a lower ABV beverage, they have to "steralize" the entire production line.
That would make sense given brewing beer is a batch process.
The issue will be that there won't be enough demand for 4.0% ABV to justify re-working the production line to brew beverages for Utah, and I think there's only one other prohibition-era/"control" state now?
To my understanding Minnesota is the only other holdout.
Yeah, Oklahoma was consuming something like 60% of ALL the 4.0% ABV fermented barley juice being produced, and I believe Colorado recently changed their 4.0% ABV laws also, so 4.0% ABV on-the-dot beverages are going to become more scarce. That market pretty much disappeared overnight.

Again: It's going to be interesting to see what the Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control ("The Church") does. It's highly likely that there won't be much logic behind their decision. Hopefully I'm wrong. :geek:
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:44 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:03 pm
Again: It's going to be interesting to see what the Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control ("The Church") does. It's highly likely that there won't be much logic behind their decision. Hopefully I'm wrong. :geek:
I think there's a strong possibility they will drop the 3.2 beer requirement. Since the COB...er UT Govt. dropped the blood content limit to .05 they can make up the revenue on DUIs. But what's the offset economic cost of a reduced workforce, as former tax payers go to jail or can't get to work on a suspended license? We'll have to wait and see. I'm sure they find some way to spin the stats in their favor to show how much safer UT is because of the lower limit.
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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by 2bizE » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:18 pm

~2bizE

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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by RubinHighlander » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:22 am

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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by 2bizE » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:07 am

Completely blindsided. Did anyone else foresee this coming?
https://www.ksl.com/article/46489179/ch ... nce-stores
~2bizE

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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by wtfluff » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:20 pm

2bizE wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:07 am
Completely blindsided. Did anyone else foresee this coming?
https://www.ksl.com/article/46489179/ch ... nce-stores
Why am I NOT surprised? I think I'm gonna have a heart-attack and die from NOT surprise!


It will be interesting to watch: Which is more important (or: Which lobbyists have the more pull) for the church-broke Utah legislators:
  • The "suggestion" of LDS-Inc.?
  • Or the retailers who are going to lose profit?
The people are gonna get their ethanol somewhere. I don't really think this has anything to do with consumption, it's just LDS-Inc. throwing around their political weight for no real reason except they feel they "have to" because alcohol is "evil." Keeping the same laws will screw retailers out of business; Since the Church... Oops, I mean the State essentially runs the liquor business in the state, they are going to get their tax revenue whether it comes from retailers, or comes from the Church Liquor Stores. (Oops, I did it again. :cry: )

You know, if cheap mild-barely-drinks become less available, it's likely people will just buy more hard liquor and consume more. Then DUI's will go up... I guess the church, I mean the state gets it's money (and maybe even more) either way.
Last edited by wtfluff on Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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2bizE
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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by 2bizE » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:07 pm

I wish every time the church comes out with an opinion on a bill in legislature, that Mormonleaks would release a big church scandal. Might change how the church offers opinions.
~2bizE

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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:57 pm

2bizE wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:07 am
Completely blindsided. Did anyone else foresee this coming?
https://www.ksl.com/article/46489179/ch ... nce-stores
I think that every time TSCC pulls a stunt like this, they just look more stupid to the entire world. Maybe they think they look like heroes in the eyes of their TBMs.
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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by Random » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:03 pm

2bizE wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:07 pm
I wish every time the church comes out with an opinion on a bill in legislature, that Mormonleaks would release a big church scandal. Might change how the church offers opinions.
This would be useful.
[They] which knew me from the beginning . . . would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Acts 26:5

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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by Random » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:07 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:20 pm
Why am I NOT surprised? I think I'm gonna have a heart-attack and die from NOT surprise!


It will be interesting to watch: Which is more important (or: Which lobbyists have the more pull) for the church-broke Utah legislators:
  • The "suggestion" of LDS-Inc.?
  • Or the retailers who are going to lose profit?
Yep. No real surprise there. My fervent hope is that they will be ignored by most people. There are some hardcore Nelson worshipers/fans who will do what the church wants, but I hope all that the church has been doing to wake people up to the Wizard of Oz scenario pays in full with this. But, who knows, maybe Toto hasn't pulled the curtain back far enough yet.
[They] which knew me from the beginning . . . would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Acts 26:5

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2bizE
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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by 2bizE » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:59 pm

Hey folks, it happened. Utah legislature passed the increase alcohol by volume to 4.8% bill. The church opposed the bill, but the 9/10 Mormons in Utah congress thought otherwise. That may be a first.

https://www.ksl.com/article/46499599/bi ... tah-senate
~2bizE

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Re: Alcohol Content of Beer in Utah vs Walmart

Post by RubinHighlander » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:00 pm

2bizE wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:59 pm
Hey folks, it happened. Utah legislature passed the increase alcohol by volume to 4.8% bill. The church opposed the bill, but the 9/10 Mormons in Utah congress thought otherwise. That may be a first.

https://www.ksl.com/article/46499599/bi ... tah-senate
Well that's good news. I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of those cases the COB vocally opposed so they could show how they don't mess directly in politics, like they did with prop 2. It will help them in their defense against Rocky Anderson and the prop 2 folks who are trying to expose them. When the COB really wants something they have Kirton and McConkie write it up, hand it to elected church broke cronies and pass it with ease.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams

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