Today she said...

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Hagoth
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Today she said...

Post by Hagoth » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:49 pm

"I know you're never going to come back to the church and I'm fine with that." Then she said that she still finds value in the church, and knowing whether or not it's all literally true isn't a priority for her because it gives her things that she needs in her life. And I told her that I'm fine with that. I even volunteered to join her in the temple today (before my recommend winds down for the last time), followed by a nice lunch, and it was a good day out. She'll probably go with me to my not-church tomorrow.

I don't believe there's a sustainable middle way in the church, but I continue to gain confidence that there really can be a middle way in a mixed faith marriage.

I hope those of you who are walking a tight rope across the shark pit can take some encouragement from this.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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alas
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Re: Today she said...

Post by alas » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:13 am

It sounds really good. That is kind of where my DH is. He admits there are problems, and doesn’t hope for my going back, but the issues/truthfulness doesnt bother him because he gets something he needs from church.

Reuben
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Re: Today she said...

Post by Reuben » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:47 am

Same here.

I'm convinced that most members like us, who can't make ourselves believe the church's claims, could happily stay in it if we felt like we had some minimal support and could pivot to having faith in the goodness we find inside of it. Heck, almost everyone tries to find a way to happily stay. The problem is that once we stop believing, it ceases to be good for us, and we start to see how it's not good for others, either, in various degrees.

It seems to me that in many of the healthiest mixed-faith marriages, it's instead the believing spouse who pivots to having faith in the goodness they find in the church.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

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alas
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Re: Today she said...

Post by alas » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:42 pm

Reuben wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:47 am
Same here.

I'm convinced that most members like us, who can't make ourselves believe the church's claims, could happily stay in it if we felt like we had some minimal support and could pivot to having faith in the goodness we find inside of it. Heck, almost everyone tries to find a way to happily stay. The problem is that once we stop believing, it ceases to be good for us, and we start to see how it's not good for others, either, in various degrees.

It seems to me that in many of the healthiest mixed-faith marriages, it's instead the believing spouse who pivots to having faith in the goodness they find in the church.
I have seen spouses go three ways. These can be in steps or stages or the spouse can end up permanently in one or the other.

1. They retrench, this is often the first reaction and doesn’t last, but if it does, this often ends in divorce.
2. They start to suspect that the issues their spouse sees are valid. They will either decide they like the church and the problems don’t matter, don’t change what the church is to them, or
3. They decide their spouse has valid points and that they don’t really fit in or don’t really like the church and they leave. But even this doesn’t guarantee that the couple stay married. I have seen several couples where the believing spouse decides they don’t like the church and are only staying married because the church frowns on divorce.

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jfro18
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Re: Today she said...

Post by jfro18 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:58 pm

alas wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:42 pm
I have seen spouses go three ways. These can be in steps or stages or the spouse can end up permanently in one or the other.

1. They retrench, this is often the first reaction and doesn’t last, but if it does, this often ends in divorce.
2. They start to suspect that the issues their spouse sees are valid. They will either decide they like the church and the problems don’t matter, don’t change what the church is to them, or
3. They decide their spouse has valid points and that they don’t really fit in or don’t really like the church and they leave. But even this doesn’t guarantee that the couple stay married. I have seen several couples where the believing spouse decides they don’t like the church and are only staying married because the church frowns on divorce.
This sounds about right from being on here and talking to others... it of course is more simplified but outlines it well.

My wife has been stuck on #1 for 10 months... that worries me a lot. Perhaps she's on #2 but just can't admit to me that there are legitimate problems, but I think she's found some really offensive apologetics that she trusts which is difficult for me to process, and that keeps her on #1.

Glad to hear some solid foundations are there for you, Hagoth - it does give me some encouragement that in another year even if she still doesn't believe anything I say that we can find that middle way in a mixed faith marriage, and more importantly with figuring out how to handle a young child and church stuff. :)

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Hagoth
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Re: Today she said...

Post by Hagoth » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:30 am

jfro18 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:58 pm
alas wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:42 pm

My wife has been stuck on #1 for 10 months... that worries me a lot. Perhaps she's on #2 but just can't admit to me that there are legitimate problems, but I think she's found some really offensive apologetics that she trusts which is difficult for me to process, and that keeps her on #1.
/quote]
I suspect that for people whose cognitive world is less critical/empirical than some others the shift from #1 to #2 might be as big a step as their spouse's shift from it's all true to it's entirely bogus. I give my wife huge respect for being able to reformat her perspective toward the church in a less philosophically catastrophic way than I was able to do.

One realization that we have mutually come to is that if you are not changing your perspective based on new knowledge you are not growing. The chirch, it seems to me, wants you to freeze your mental development at about age 8 and turn all of your thinking inward to obedience rather than outward to gaining new experience and understanding.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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