Intervention

[slavereeno]

My mother and father stopped by unannounced today. They expressed their love and then my mother proceeded to tell me that the adversary is real and that he's got me in his clutches. She said she was not going to "give up without a fight." She said all the temple ordinances were ancient and from God himself. She reminded me that I was named after somebody in the OT and gave me her father's Patriarchal blessing to read.

The entire time both Mom and Dad looked at me like I was infected with a terminal illness. So yeah, things are super weird now.

I thanked them for their love and told Mom I would read the blessing. I told her I understand what she believes and they headed off to the temple.

I haven't been around here much for a while, I got really interested in a bunch of science stuff. Things I couldn't quite let into my mind before the shelf broke. I kind of binged on that stuff for a few weeks. There is so much more than I could have imagined when my mind was deep in the Mormon box, its been enlightening.

I so damn sick of Mormonism. I just want it all gone from my life. I am sick of trying to have a simple conversation about any meaningful topic without it somehow turning into a gospel discussion with my family. I am sick of people trying to fix me. I don't have any interest in taking the time to explain myself or my reasons, they aren't going to listen or understand. They will just feel threatened. I am sick of DW and I walking on eggshells all the time around each other. I am sick of paying so much of my income to an organization I don't support or have any desire to be affiliated with. I am sick of going to church and wearing underwear chosen for me by some authority. I am sick of acting like I believe to our neighbors, friends and relatives to keep the peace. I could give a damn what happens next in Mormonism.

Thanks for letting me rant.

[Kishkumen]

Keep Preaching, the choir is listening.

Rant away - this is a good place for it.

[MerrieMiss]

This is so weird. I don't know how you kept it together. So, so weird.

Was your wife there? Does she know about this? I would imagine many active mormons thinking this is over the top.

[Red Ryder]

You're name is Nebuchadnezzar too?

Well I'll be damned! I knew we had this spiritual connection from the pre-existence.

PS. My wife was at the Masonic lodge this morning. Wouldn't that be weird if they sat by each other?

[BriansThoughtMirror]

Wow, that sounds horrible! I'm so sorry! It's weird to think that people in all sorts of other religions see "apostates" the same way...

I so damn sick of Mormonism. I just want it all gone from my life. I am sick of trying to have a simple conversation about any meaningful topic without it somehow turning into a gospel discussion with my family. I am sick of people trying to fix me. I don't have any interest in taking the time to explain myself or my reasons, they aren't going to listen or understand. They will just feel threatened. I am sick of DW and I walking on eggshells all the time around each other. I am sick of paying so much of my income to an organization I don't support or have any desire to be affiliated with. I am sick of going to church and wearing underwear chosen for me by some authority. I am sick of acting like I believe to our neighbors, friends and relatives to keep the peace. I could give a damn what happens next in Mormonism.

Man, I hear ya. You have GOT to at least lose the regulation undies. It may be pathetic, but that is one of the few things in my life I always feel good about when I think of it- and that, despite the awful pain, tears, and awkwardness it caused between my wife and I for a good while. It was worth it, even though in the moment I thought I might die. You will never, ever want to put them back on.

[glass shelf]

Are you going to set a boundary about talking about the church after this?

My mother-in-law did something equally manipulative one time, and I told her it was the last time we would ever talk about the church. Period. I know she's still not happy we left, but we don't talk about it. I'm a grown adult, and I'm not dealing with interventions over fairy tales. i'm sorry you were on the receiving end of one today.

I know their beliefs cause them a lot of pain, but I'm not responsible for it. the LDS church is.

[StarbucksMom]

Are you going to set a boundary about talking about the church after this?

My mother-in-law did something equally manipulative one time, and I told her it was the last time we would ever talk about the church. Period. I know she's still not happy we left, but we don't talk about it. I'm a grown adult, and I'm not dealing with interventions over fairy tales. i'm sorry you were on the receiving end of one today.

I know their beliefs cause them a lot of pain, but I'm not responsible for it. the LDS church is.

YES. Glass Shelf nailed it. Slavereeno, I have been thinking about you and what you wrote for a few days. I think you have been patient and more than accommodating to your family for a long time. It is ok, and long overdue, for you to set some boundaries with your family. With your parents, it's a no-brainer. Read Glass Shelf's response like 10 times a day. Just tell your parents that you love them, you're grateful for all they have given you, and name a few positive things you have learned from them. Then remind them that as an adult, your views of the LDS church have changed, and you are not willing to discuss it with them. That if they try, you will ask them to change the subject and will not speak until they do. If they send LDS themed texts/emails, you will delete them and not respond. The end.

With your wife and kids, it's more difficult. But it's better to stand up for yourself than to live the way you are. It's ok to tell your wife that she can pay tithing on her income, but you cannot in good conscience pay on yours. That after learning about how the church is spending so very little (find that statistic about how they took in billions over 25 years and only gave like a few million to charity, like .06% or whatever) I can find it for you if you want, and how much other churches/organizations give, and the multibillion dollar mall, 6 fig salaries for RETIRED EMPTY NESTER GAs, etc etc---That you don't feel that's what Jesus woud want. So you will no longer pay. I did this with my husband about 8 years ago, now he just pays fast offerings, like $50 a month or so. I can live with that. You can also show her the Rock Waterman article, or just the scriptures, and past GA quotes that talk about paying on surplus. Whatever, just stop the bleeding now. She will come around. If she doesn't work, consider telling her she can still pay on a portion of what you earn so she can feel like she can attend the temple, not get burned in a fire, etc.

Hope you can take your life back, you only have one shot at this one here on earth.

[wtfluff]

The "Intervention" sounds heinous.

Though, there is a tiny part of me that wishes something like that would happen to me. I'd likely just turn in to my usual, quivering, useless social-reject self, but I would want to reply: "Have you read 'the essays?' Until you know what I know, there is no reason whatsoever to attempt to discuss this; So here's your homework: Read this and then we can talk. Until then, let's remain friends and we will NOT DISCUSS RELIGION OR POLITICS. How about that weather!"

I highly doubt anything like that would ever happen with my family. Also doubtful that I could pull off my made-up reaction, but one can dream, no?

[2bizE]

Makes you want to pack up and move to Alaska or Siberia.

[slavereeno]

Thank you all for your replies and support.

DW was pretty supportive, and not very happy with the way my parents are reacting.

I have been doing a lot of non committal listening. My dad likes to use the line "they can leave the church but they can't leave it alone!" Which I think is funny since my experience has been that in fact it's the church that won't leave me alone, or a least my parents won't.

I guess I will have to set some boundaries.

Nelson's talk was horrible. DW didn't like it a bit.

[jfro18]

I can't believe I missed this over the weekend. So sorry that you're going through this and I hope you can find a way to set some boundaries that they can respect.

You're right about how you can leave the church but it won't leave you alone -- as long as you have family still active believers, it will always be a part of your life no matter how much you try to avoid it.

Sending positive vibes your way and I hope that you can find a way to get the message across to a peaceful solution.

[Reuben]

Nelson's talk was horrible. DW didn't like it a bit.

Sounds like your wife isn't afraid to empathize with you, and has gone one step further to being aware of messaging that's harmful to you.

[slavereeno]

You're right about how you can leave the church but it won't leave you alone -- as long as you have family still active believers, it will always be a part of your life no matter how much you try to avoid it.

Sending positive vibes your way and I hope that you can find a way to get the message across to a peaceful solutio

Exactly, and thanks

Sounds like your wife isn't afraid to empathize with you, and has gone one step further to being aware of messaging that's harmful to you.

Yes, things have gotten better, we aren't having arguments like we did when this all first hit the fan. We still disagree on many things, and she is still deeply upset and afraid about how this will affect pretty much all our relationships with family and friends. I would venture to say that our relationship is stronger now though.

[Red Ryder]

Yes, things have gotten better,

The important thing to remember is that most of the time our families act out like this out of love and concern for our well being.

In ways it could be worse.

They could come over and tie you up and physically remove your Fruit of the Loom tighty whitey's and then prop you up and step you into a fresh pair of polyester mesh garments two sizes too big. You know, like when you got your initiatory.

They could hook up an IV and drip the cool aid, the soda pop, or the ovaltine straight into your veins and detox your body of all caffeine built up from months of coffee drinking.

They could tie you to your couch and prop open your eyeballs with toothpicks and FORCE you to watch reruns of conference for hours beginning with Ezra Taft Benson all the way through this past weekend! "Benson to Nelson, a faithful journey through 14 fundamentals and nighttime revelations", now on VHS, DVD, and YouTube.

While you're still tied up on your couch they could FORCE you to listen to Janice Kapp Perry songs or even worse, Michael McClane crooning, "Yooooooou're not aloooooone! Sing it one more time yooooooo're not alooooooooone!"

If the garment dressing, best of conference, and JKP torture doesn't work they could take you down to the unfinished basement and FORCE you to take food storage inventory, one grain of wheat at a time! 67,887; 67,888; 67,889; 67,908; grains of wheat..... Dammit! On to dried potato flakes, get counting!!

If the garments, best of conference, JKP torture, and food storage inventory don't get you back holding the iron rod, then your parents,loved ones, and ministering leaders will be forced to try one last weird intervention trick!

They will have to fly you on a cheap Allegiant Airlines plane straight to Provo and taxi your so called intellectual, unbelieving, prideful, sinning, black soul to BYU where you will be given a dose of......

ELECTROSHOCK THERAPY!

That's right. In the newly converted lab formerly used to shock the gay away! You'll receive an all expenses paid trip (to be tacked on to your back tithing invoice) to a BYU dorm where you will be monitored daily in between shock therapy sessions. In that dorm you will have a fresh set of polyester mesh garments, a triple combination (don't ask why the pages are sticky), and two slices of wonder bread to be used as Sacrament to partake of the Lords flesh and blood! The night guards will loan their ties so that you can restrict your dominate hand from self abusing yourself as that interferes with the end goal of shock therapy. You will eat MTC cafeteria food during your stay and hope you can pray the disbelief away!

{{{{{shocking the sh!t out of you since 1962!}}}}

[slavereeno]

ELECTROSHOCK THERAPY!

That's right. In the newly converted lab formerly used to shock the gay away! You'll receive an all expenses paid trip (to be tacked on to your back tithing invoice) to a BYU dorm where you will be monitored daily in between shock therapy sessions. In that dorm you will have a fresh set of polyester mesh garments, a triple combination (don't ask why the pages are sticky), and two slices of wonder bread to be used as Sacrament to partake of the Lords flesh and blood! The night guards will loan their ties so that you can restrict your dominate hand from self abusing yourself as that interferes with the end goal of shock therapy. You will eat MTC cafeteria food during your stay and hope you can pray the disbelief away!

{{{{{shocking the sh!t out of you since 1962!}}}}

I dunno, if my parents thought it would work and that they could get away with it...

[Corsair]

My dad likes to use the line "they can leave the church but they can't leave it alone!" Which I think is funny since my experience has been that in fact it's the church that won't leave me alone, or a least my parents won't.

"Hey Dad, that sounds like an excellent idea. Let me leave the church and I 100% promise I will leave it alone. Surely the church will gladly leave me alone also.

"We'll probably have to find something new to talk about, but I am actually still happy to hear about how you are serving in church. Still, do you have any hobbies that are not church related? No? Huh, that's weird. I was thinking of taking up golf on Sunday or something like that."

[Newme]

Slavereeno,
You are not alone, even if it feels that way. In fact, reading your post made me feel less alone. Thanks for sharing.

On one hand, it’s so freeing to see things more clearly. On the other hand, if makes relating in relat-ionships difficult.

The "Intervention" sounds heinous.

Though, there is a tiny part of me that wishes something like that would happen to me. I'd likely just turn in to my usual, quivering, useless social-reject self, but I would want to reply: "Have you read 'the essays?' Until you know what I know, there is no reason whatsoever to attempt to discuss this; So here's your homework: Read this and then we can talk. Until then, let's remain friends and we will NOT DISCUSS RELIGION OR POLITICS. How about that weather!"

I highly doubt anything like that would ever happen with my family. Also doubtful that I could pull off my made-up reaction, but one can dream, no?

I like it! I might borrow your approach.

[MalcolmVillager]

You're name is Nebuchadnezzar too?

Well I'll be damned! I knew we had this spiritual connection from the pre-existence.

PS. My wife was at the Masonic lodge this morning. Wouldn't that be weird if they sat by each other?

Dude, I almost blew coffee out my nose.

Slavereeno, this is weird. It sucks. I am sorry. Luckily that is not happening to me (yet) but just about.

I have the family coming into town to see my final required PH ordinances as I baptize and bless my baby. After that, all bets are off.

[græy]

Yes, things have gotten better, we aren't having arguments like we did when this all first hit the fan. We still disagree on many things, and she is still deeply upset and afraid about how this will affect pretty much all our relationships with family and friends. I would venture to say that our relationship is stronger now though.

I'm sorry to hear about your parents. I remember a few years ago when a family from our ward left the church. My wife was really hurt. "How could they do that, knowing what they're giving up? Their going to lose their eternal family!" I was awake enough at that time to point out to her that if they're leaving the church they likely either don't believe God would really take their eternal family away just for not being members of the church, or they don't believe in eternal families anyway. She just could not fathom not holding the church's claims as the gold standard of truth. Even when people point-blank demonstrated that they didn't believe those claims, it just did not compute for her.

I'm sure your parents are coming from a similar background. What they do, they do because the care for you. Even if the actions they take to demonstrate that love exhibit a complete lack of understanding about your motivations and intentions.

I'm glad to hear things are going better between you and your wife.

As mentioned before, despite Michael McLean's annoying song now echoing in my head. You aren't alone in this battle.