Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

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AllieOop
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Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by AllieOop » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:05 am

I'd love to hear anything regarding this connection (if someone has legal knowledge or input). I'm hearing that some now believe that this is the real reason the policy was reversed/changed. That the church's legal team recommended the change to thwart any lawsuits, etc., because of the new legislation.

Here's some info:
On March 5, 2019, the state Senate approved a bill to criminalize hate crimes based on sexual orientation or gender identity, in a 18-11 vote.[57][58] It was approved by the House with an amendment on March 12, in a 64-9 vote, with 2 abstentions. The Senate concurred with the amendment the same day, in a 22-3 vote.[59][60] The bill was signed by the Governor on April 2, 2019.[61]
Here's someone mentioning how close these two events were:

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/05/71016958 ... bt-couples
DAYSHA EATON, BYLINE: Troy Williams is the executive director of civil rights group Equality Utah. He's gay, and he's left the LDS church. He and others were celebrating a victory this week that gave LGBTQ people the same protections as others in new legislation.

TROY WILLIAMS: The governor of Utah signed an LGBTQ-inclusive hate crime statute that was voted on almost - with a overwhelming majority of this conservative legislature.

EATON: They didn't expect to be celebrating again just a few days later. The church had reversed course on a controversial 2015 policy concerning same-sex couples. He says now it's time to re-evaluate.


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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:10 am

The more I see these changes the more convinced I am that they are based on legal and corporate pragmatism and not on any Christian compassion. 2 hour church and mission age/family contact rules were simply retention strategy and this latest reversal certainly seems to be along legal lines in my opinion.


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Newme
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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by Newme » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:13 am

It was probably a reaction to that. Whether it’s children of polygamy families or any other - it seems more of an attempt to resist infiltration. Polygamy family children still are restricted.

“Hate crime” laws seem prejudice in themselves. They assume they know the intent of someone - and as if someone’s feelings make a crime worse than the crime itself. It reminds me of the inquisition - or crusades - punishing based on beliefs.

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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by Just This Guy » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:10 am

I never buyed that it was declining numbers that drove the church to remove the policy. If that was the case there are many thing I could see them doing before they removed the PoX. The church simply is not that Christian. There is always another motive behind it.

The threat of being labeled as a Hate organization by the state of Utah, that is WAY more believable that it would compel change then just their appearance to the world.

I also find it interesting that Utah passes such a bill. Everyone talks about the power it has in Utah politics. That seams to be waning as of late.
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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by Hagoth » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:07 pm

That makes sense. The church originally responded to the bill with reluctance. Then they seemed to flip and embrace in light of the impending, but not yet announced policy flip-flop. Kind of like the way they tried to take credit for the marijuana proposition as a sign of their concern for suffering people only after they realized they were going to lose, and instead found a way to perform radical surgery on it.
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Red Ryder
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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:00 pm

Purely a coincidence.

Everyone knows that God can change his mind for no reason. Wendy confirmed when she left the room, she paused for a moment with her ear to the door. She vaguely heard Russ say out loud "are you sure? We just changed the policy not even 5 years ago!! Ok, ok, I'll write this down and explain to Dallin later. He's NOT going to be happy about this!"
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:05 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:00 pm
Purely a coincidence.

Everyone knows that God can change his mind for no reason. Wendy confirmed when she left the room, she paused for a moment with her ear to the door. She vaguely heard Russ say out loud "are you sure? We just changed the policy not even 5 years ago!! Ok, ok, I'll write this down and explain to Dallin later. He's NOT going to be happy about this!"
Made me snicker, but really this is the MO of the COB: Bending to political and social pressures to implement policy changes, then later or even immediately claiming it's revelation. There's good historical documentation to show this:
- Declaration on Polygamy
- WOW
- Blacks and the Priesthood
- One on one interviews
- Two hour church
- Missionaries can wear pants and call home every week
- Women advancing position in participation
- Removal of penalties in the temple

What else?

Most of the time this seems to back the COB into a corner with the secular world. On the one hand they would likely be better off sticking to policy changes but they also have to appease TBMs and keep up the curtain they have the magic from God.

Sometimes it's about the money:
- Changes in the definition of tithing
- Gutting Prop2 in Utah to require proprietary packaging then investing in a Pharma that will make it so.
- Control of liquor sales
...
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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by moksha » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:13 pm

The Church did contribute to the passage of this legislation when they announced they would not be opposing this year's hate crimes bill in the legislature. This legislation has been introduced in the legislature for many years and it usually does not make it out of committee. The Church was signaling that it was finally safe for the State Legislators to do the right thing.

The recision of the Church's policy of exclusion was totally separate from this hate crimes legislation, but both were enabled by the Church wanting to appear less of an ogre in the eyes of Millennial and Gen Z Mormons.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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AllieOop
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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by AllieOop » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:02 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:10 am
The more I see these changes the more convinced I am that they are based on legal and corporate pragmatism and not on any Christian compassion.
Yup, I agree. I was hopeful that the leaders realized how unChristlike this policy was and had a softening of their hearts.

I do believe most of their decisions are based on avoiding legal problems and anything that may cost them some money. It's run like a corporation because it is a corporation. Too bad that's what motivates them, but it makes sense....just like what took place with the Priesthood ban change.


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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by AllieOop » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:03 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:00 pm
Purely a coincidence.

Everyone knows that God can change his mind for no reason. Wendy confirmed when she left the room, she paused for a moment with her ear to the door. She vaguely heard Russ say out loud "are you sure? We just changed the policy not even 5 years ago!! Ok, ok, I'll write this down and explain to Dallin later. He's NOT going to be happy about this!"
:lol:
Thanks for the laugh (and image)!



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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by AllieOop » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:06 am

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:07 pm
That makes sense. The church originally responded to the bill with reluctance. Then they seemed to flip and embrace in light of the impending, but not yet announced policy flip-flop. Kind of like the way they tried to take credit for the marijuana proposition as a sign of their concern for suffering people only after they realized they were going to lose, and instead found a way to perform radical surgery on it.
It really does make sense when it's analyzed like you did above. I had a gut feeling there had to be something behind this sudden reversal that made them look foolish. So, it was interesting to learn more about this.



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Red Ryder
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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:22 am

AllieOop wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:02 am
Yup, I agree. I was hopeful that the leaders realized how unChristlike this policy was and had a softening of their hearts.
Too many of us have been at this for a long time. At what point do we give up hope and realize the Corporate Church doesn't follow the teachings of Jesus Christ? Not even their own teachings of Jesus Christ!

I've given up hope. My first reactions to any positive church policy news is "I wonder what lawsuit they are preventing this time?"
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Random
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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by Random » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:18 pm

This is sad. I hope the day comes when they have no power to sway state politics.
moksha wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:13 pm
The Church did contribute to the passage of this legislation when they announced they would not be opposing this year's hate crimes bill in the legislature. This legislation has been introduced in the legislature for many years and it usually does not make it out of committee. The Church was signaling that it was finally safe for the State Legislators to do the right thing.

The recision of the Church's policy of exclusion was totally separate from this hate crimes legislation, but both were enabled by the Church wanting to appear less of an ogre in the eyes of Millennial and Gen Z Mormons.
[They] which knew me from the beginning . . . would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Acts 26:5

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Random
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Re: Is There A Connection Between The Policy Reversal & New Legislation Passed In Utah?

Post by Random » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:19 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:22 am
My first reactions to any positive church policy news is "I wonder what lawsuit they are preventing this time?"
(Nods) More and more.
[They] which knew me from the beginning . . . would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Acts 26:5

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