New RFM podcast - Tad Callister

[Hagoth]

https://radiofreemormon.org/2019/08/rad ... of-mormon/

I'm still listening to the first episode but I love the way RFM and Bill lead out with the church's modus operandiof listing supposed empirical evidences of historical truth and then immediately (and cowardly, in my opinion) retreating back behind the Holy Ghost's magical Cloak of Critical Thought Impermeability at the very thought of potential rebuttal. All the time, of course, the prophet sits back out of the splash zone far enough not to get any on him.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow's commute.

[jfro18]

I listened to both parts between yesterday and today while working, and I liked the second part better because it really cuts into just how improbably the entire Book of Mormon is against what we now know and then showing how the "bullseyes" that Tad cites are expected given how many things Joseph is riffing on.

I think you'll like part two - the whole podcast might be a bit long given that it's covering a 5 minutes "fireside," but it was a fun one to have on in the background while I worked.

[Just This Guy]

I've got it downloaded. It's que'ed up so It will start on my commute in tomorrow. I'll see how it goes. Due to the length and where it is on my que, I will likely take me a couple days to finish it.

[Corsair]

It's a great episode and it would be amusing to watch a Book of Mormon apologist trying to process it. They certainly can point out that some of their statistics is a bit off. Losing that Solitaire game would be (1-(12/13)^52) = 98.4%. But it certainly shows that the occasional bullseye is going to show up once in a while surrounded by loads of failures.

[Hagoth]

Callister's comments on the amazing and inspiring wisdom found in the Book of Mormon become completely irrelevant when you consider other sources like the Bible, the Koran, the teachings of the Buddha, etc. The number of people who find inspiration and spirituality in those books vastly overshadows the tiny subset of humanity who find anything of value, or even interest, in the BoM. From the myopic LDS perspective the BoM is the most important book in the world, but from a global perspective it can't hold a candle to The Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, or Green Eggs and Ham.

[Hagoth]

My favorite revelation in this podcast was when RFM pointed out wiring on metal plates in Leviticus, Macabees, and Josephus. All of these were sources available to Joseph Smith. He would also have certainly known the masonic tale of Enoch which features an engraved gold plate.

Callister uses writing on metal as one of the most significant evidences for the BoM but I think it's a strike against it. Mesoamericans had no metallurgy at all until long after BoM times. The Tarascans, neighbors to the Aztecs, finally adopted copper smelting, probably via coastal trade from South America, by around 1200 AD but even the mighty Aztec empire had no metal. Callister uses stuff like this to suggest that archaeology supports the BoM. Ancient people wrote on every material that was available to them. This has no direct bearing on Jaredites and Nephites. I would love to see him try to point out even one single artifact from the Americas that is direct evidence of anything or anyone in the BoM.

[jfro18]

My favorite revelation in this podcast was when RFM pointed out wiring on metal plates in Leviticus, Macabees, and Josephus. All of these were sources available to Joseph Smith. He would also have certainly known the masonic tale of Enoch which features an engraved gold plate.

Callister uses writing on metal as one of the most significant evidences for the BoM but I think it's a strike against it. Mesoamericans had no metallurgy at all until long after BoM times. The Tarascans, neighbors to the Aztecs, finally adopted copper smelting, probably via coastal trade from South America, by around 1200 AD but even the mighty Aztec empire had no metal. Callister uses stuff like this to suggest that archaeology supports the BoM. Ancient people wrote on every material that was available to them. This has no direct bearing on Jaredites and Nephites. I would love to see him try to point out even one single artifact from the Americas that is direct evidence of anything or anyone in the BoM.

This is a big FAIR trick too- they have that graphic I think in their CES Rebuttal where they take everything thought to be an anachronism to the BoM say 50 years ago compared to now, and claim that almost all of them have been proven right over time.

What they don't tell you is that in context they are not right whether you're talking about specific kinds of plants, animals, or gold plates/metal working.

Here's their "as of 2005" chart which claims everything has been confirmed legit.





And that's why they LOVE these drive-by, quick rebuttals - because they can make these claims knowing that unless someone digs into them, it will sound reassuring. And that's why in those face-to-face events the historians ALWAYS say "I wish we had more time to get into that a bit more."

They don't want more time because the deeper you go the more you realize it just can't possible work.

[Not Buying It]

I think you are all being way too hard on Elder Callister. How would you like to go through life with the first name Tad? Say it out loud - "Tad". What a horrible first name. It rhymes with sad and mad and plaid and bad and cad - all kinds of horrible things. That scene at the Bridge of Death in Monty Python and the Holy Grail would have been ten times more funny if they wizard had said "There are some who call me... 'Tad'" instead of Tim, because Tim is actually a cool name and Tad is like the worst first name ever. How would you like to have the same first name as Tad Walch of the Deseret News, the worst journalist in all of Mormonism and possibly the world if anyone who wasn't Mormon ever bothered to read his tired President-Nelson-butt-kissing-propaganda? Who in the hell names a baby Tad, anyway? Did his Mom hate him and give him the worst name she could think of? Maybe it was a real painful childbirth and she decided to name him Tad to take it out on him. When I list all of the impressive, cool, erudite-sounding first names there are in the world, Tad comes at the very bottom of the list. I mean, I challenge you, name me one person named Tad who ever amounted to anything in the world? You can't, can you? I'd name a baby Gomer before I'd name one Tad. I'd name ten babies Gomer before I'd name one Tad. I'd have a whole houseful of babies named Gomer - some of them girls even - before I'd even have a single kid I named Tad. In fact, that's what I call people who are being really dumb: "Tad". As in "you're being a real Tad about this, are you brain dead or something?". Or "Don't be such a Tad, you loser".

So let's all back off a little on poor Elder Tad Callister. He's had a hard life. And on top of that, he's got the tough job of trying to defend the most easily disprovable and frankly ridiculous religious book on the market that isn't Dianetics.

You brutes. Have you no soul?

P.S. A sincere apology to any of you who might actually be named Tad.

[jfro18]

P.S. A sincere apology to any of you who might actually be named Tad.

Now all I can think of is The Simpsons and hearing "We're all out of Tad license plates" at Itchy & Scratchy Land!

[2bizE]

Here is a summary of Tad Callister’s 9 minute long “5 minute message”:
Joseph Smith translated the BOM in 65 days and only a near-God like prophet could do that.

[jfro18]

I listened to a Sunstone history podcast recently about how the LDS scriptures came to be, and in there they include a segment by Brian Hales going over the different author theories.

It reminds me a lot of what Tad is doing where you misrepresent what critics are claiming and then use a bunch of wide-ranging claims to try and say that Joseph Smith was not that smart but yet a creative genius.

Sunstone podcast is @ https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/episod ... criptures/ for anyone interested.

I'll give Hales credit because he actually tells listeners to check out both the Dan Vogel and John Hamer episodes of Mormon Stories where they discuss how the BoM was written, but again he creates a number of strawman arguments to deflect some really good points that they make.

[Hagoth]

I challenge you, name me one person named Tad who ever amounted to anything in the world? You can't, can you?

Tad the Hun, Tad the Great, Tad Khan, King Tadmos the Third, Tad the Revelator, Taddius Maximus for starters.

[Hagoth]

This is absolutely terrible.

At least half of the confirmed items apply to pretty much any civilization (i.e. stone monuments, thrones, cities, walls, military costumes, spears, highland lake, 3 culture sequence... gimme a break). About half of the remaining items aren't actually confirmed. For example, Steel Swords is marked as confirmed. Please show me a steel sword from ancient America. Same with brass plates. You're telling me that since someone somewhere wrote on metal plates it proves there were metal books in the Americas? Show me. Hebrew Language? Really? Show me. Narrow Neck of Land is a hit? Not in Mesoamerica, not in the Heartland. East and West seas? N/S River? Only if you redefine North, South, East, and West.

Absolutely terrible.

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

I challenge you, name me one person named Tad who ever amounted to anything in the world? You can't, can you?

Tad the Hun, Tad the Great, Tad Khan, King Tadmos the Third, Tad the Revelator, Taddius Maximus for starters.

Tad's power is derived from his infamous perma shadow mustache which both adhere's to the byu standard and breaks it at the same time. A true miracle among general authorities.

[Not Buying It]

I challenge you, name me one person named Tad who ever amounted to anything in the world? You can't, can you?

Tad the Hun, Tad the Great, Tad Khan, King Tadmos the Third, Tad the Revelator, Taddius Maximus for starters.

Ha! Yeah, I forgot about them!

[Random]

How would you like to go through life with the first name Tad? Say it out loud - "Tad". What a horrible first name. It rhymes with sad and mad and plaid and bad and cad - all kinds of horrible things.

I actually like the name. I like tadpoles, too. Played with them when I was a kid. And sometimes things are a tad iffy or a tad too much or too little. (And, no, I'm not making fun of his name. I genuinely like the sound.)

[Palerider]

How would you like to go through life with the first name Tad? Say it out loud - "Tad". What a horrible first name. It rhymes with sad and mad and plaid and bad and cad - all kinds of horrible things.

I actually like the name. I like tadpoles, too. Played with them when I was a kid. And sometimes things are a tad iffy or a tad too much or too little. (And, no, I'm not making fun of his name. I genuinely like the sound.)

Oh.....you stole my thunder....!

I was going to say that Not Buying It sounded a tad overwrought.....Harumphhh.

[Random]

Oh.....you stole my thunder....!

I was going to say that Not Buying It sounded a tad overwrought.....Harumphhh.

I love it! Let's share the thunder.

[Random]

In fact, yours is funny, and so you should get all the thunder.

[Keewon]

I'd name ten babies Gomer before I'd name one Tad. I'd have a whole houseful of babies named Gomer - some of them girls even - before I'd even have a single kid I named Tad. In fact, that's what I call people who are being really dumb: "Tad". As in "you're being a real Tad about this, are you brain dead or something?". Or "Don't be such a Tad, you loser".

Ouch. I wasn't going to say it, but my name is "Tad" in real life. Not Keewon. Who would name their child Keewon?

P.S. Just kidding.

I thought "Tad" was just a shortened version of "Theodore". Which is bad enough as a name, of course.