Moses Chapter 3

[felixfabulous]

Moses Chapter 3 contains an interesting tidbit that I remember seeing as a missionary and for some reason remembered in the middle of the night last night.

These verses talk about a river flowing out of Eden with four heads:

10 And I, the Lord God, caused a river to go out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

11 And I, the Lord God, called the name of the first Pison, and it compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where I, the Lord God, created much gold;

12 And the gold of that land was good, and there was dellium and the onyx stone.

13 And the name of the second river was called Gihon; the same that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

14 And the name of the third river was Hiddekel; that which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river was the Euphrates.

This is nearly identical to the language in Genesis 2. However, it poses a bit of a geographic dilemma. If Eden is in Jackson County, MO, then how can a river flow out to Ethiopia, Assyria and become the Euphrates? These are pretty geographically tied to the near east. This foot note in Moses seeks to explain this problem, which is what I found interesting as a missionary.

IE In the area of Eden and Adam-ondi-Ahman there were rivers and lands that received names that were later attached to other lands and rivers. As to the location of Eden and its environs, see D&C 117:8–9. Gen. 2:13.

I think this shows that in the very early 1830s when Joseph was working on the Bible project, Jackson County and an American Eden were not even on his radar. These ideas came later when he saw the chance to go to Missouri and establish Zion. I think the big ideas of these areas in Missouri being Zion and the Garden of Eden were great tools to keep people excited and engaged in what could otherwise be seen as crappy circumstances and were created to suit the circumstances. It's a lot easier to get excited about a place in the middle of nowhere if it's where Adam dwelt and will return.

[Anon70]

This brought up an embarrassing memory! As a young married woman I mentioned The Garden of Eden being in Missouri in a mixed crowd. The looks of incredulity and amusement were humiliating. I shut up and went home and did some research. Confronted my dad (who had taught me Missouri=Eden) and he did some crazy apologetics for me and I settled down and just resolved to never discuss these truths with anyone excpet Mormons ever again. But the questions lingered....and this definitely was something I put on my shelf.

[Hagoth]

I think you're right, flexi. Joseph was a theological opportunist. It helped people believe in his mission when he could point to a stack of rocks and say "that's the alter Adam built," or "there's a Nephite tower," or "God has led me to Eden/The Promised Land."

Zelph's mound was another example. It kept people motivated enough to keep trudging along on a pointless campaign.

[Palerider]

These ideas came later when he saw the chance to go to Missouri and establish Zion. I think the big ideas of these areas in Missouri being Zion and the Garden of Eden were great tools to keep people excited and engaged in what could otherwise be seen as crappy circumstances and were created to suit the circumstances. It's a lot easier to get excited about a place in the middle of nowhere if it's where Adam dwelt and will return.

And also if there's a good chance of finding lots of high quality gold there.....

As I understand it there's tons of it in Missouri just waiting to be found.

[moksha]

Another good question in that regard is, why didn't the Nephites observe Passover? Did the Nephites bother to bring the Torah with them?

[jfro18]

This is another great observation - I'm bookmarking this one for future use!

Nice find

[Hagoth]

This is a great example of God getting confused. I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with the Eden-in-Missouri doctrine, but it really is doctrine. God said it. If we can choose not to believe it that means we can choose not to believe other stuff that God supposedly told Joseph Smith. We're stuck between a rock and bad apologetics.

[1smartdodog]

I believe Joseph could adapt and conjure up whatever story was needed at the moment to enforce his prophetic abilities. Being consistent over time did not seem to be as important as keeping the flow of revelation coming.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Palerider]

Another good question in that regard is, why didn't the Nephites observe Passover? Did the Nephites bother to bring the Torah with them?

Yeah....I ran this question past my Stake President when we were going over this stuff. First time I'd ever seen him look like a deer in headlights.

No reply, change the subject.

Re: the Torah, I think most apologists would try to make the case that it was contained in the Brass plates. But then that only weakens their position for why the Nephites would have ignored the Israelite festivals and holy days. Weren't the Nephites supposedly keeping the Law of Moses?

I'm sure if it hadn't slipped Joseph's mind, he would have included Passover as a part of the story. I'm pretty sure at one time or another Joseph probably murmured, "Don't you just hate the details!"

[jfro18]

I believe Joseph could adapt and conjure up whatever story was needed at the moment to enforce his prophetic abilities. Being consistent over time did not seem to be as important as keeping the flow of revelation coming.

Exactly - *every* time his leadership was challenged, he was able to find a way to elevate himself above the others.

I never realized until I did the Saints chapter-by-chapter thing how obvious it was. Joseph would completely fail on a promise "from God" and then get another revelation chastising the members for not being good enough and to 'give Joseph a break.' The back and forth with Missouri early on is just incredible - how Joseph did not have the church fall apart I'll never know, because he gave them every chance to see through it and they STILL (well many of them, anyway) continued onward.

I think this is a great find - kind of like the First Vision which originally was trinitarian (or the Book of Mormon... or Joseph translating the Bible in Matthew), this shows very clearly that Joseph Smith completely changed the story as needed.

[blazerb]

I think this shows that in the very early 1830s when Joseph was working on the Bible project, Jackson County and an American Eden were not even on his radar. These ideas came later when he saw the chance to go to Missouri and establish Zion. I think the big ideas of these areas in Missouri being Zion and the Garden of Eden were great tools to keep people excited and engaged in what could otherwise be seen as crappy circumstances and were created to suit the circumstances. It's a lot easier to get excited about a place in the middle of nowhere if it's where Adam dwelt and will return.

and

Exactly - *every* time his leadership was challenged, he was able to find a way to elevate himself above the others.

I believe that these techniques continue. When I was a missionary, the Missionary Guide came out. Finally the stars had aligned to give us the ultimate tool needed to unlock amazing missionary success. We had the commitment pattern. We had discussions that could be flexible so we could teach by the spirit. I remember hearing zone leaders talk about how missionary work was speeding up. What was good enough just a couple years before was suddenly inadequate.

Fast forward to the release of Preach My Gospel. I heard missionaries spouting the same line we had when I was on my mission. The church has to change the missionary tools every few years to maintain the sense of progress and excitement among the workers. I would bet that every time the church has released new missionary tools, whether it be the Book of Mormon or discussions or the book "A Marvelous Work and a Wonder" or whatever, missionaries were made to feel that they were the special ones who finally had received access to something that would convert amazing numbers.

RMN is making changes like gangbusters. He is changing up PH quorums, youth programs, the Sunday schedule. We are getting a new hymnal. The temple ceremony has changed. It all manufactures a sense of excitement that world events are coming to a climactic conclusion without ever saying that there will be a conclusion soon. After all, predicting a conclusion is known to be a losing action. We are told to take our vitamins and get ready for an amazing conference commemorating the 200th anniversary of the approximate date JS said in one version of events that he had the 1st Vision.

Church leaders have to make these changes for the same reason JS had to tell people about Zelph. It keeps people engaged and excited for living in a time of action as opposed to the poor schmucks who had to live previously when things weren't nearly as exciting. Except those poor schmucks were told that they were living in the exciting time when things were about to wrap up. In a hundred years, the members who are left will be told that they have the ultimate tools. Maybe in a thousand years, traditions will have developed that will end this need for constant spiritual novelty. It won't happen in my lifetime, though.

[moksha]

I'm pretty sure at one time or another Joseph probably murmured, "Don't you just hate the details!"

You mean like forgetting to mention Nod Brothers Bagels, just around the corner from Adam-ondi-Ahman? Their poppy seed bagel with a schmeer was to die for.