Reasons for disaffection: two perspecives

[Hagoth]

I was thinking about the paradigm shift we go thought with a faith transition and how fascinating it is to have had the opportunity to look at these concepts from both sides of the coin, before and after the light switched on:

Just wanted to sin:
Believer's perspective: It is understood that everyone is tempted and sometimes we give into our temptations and need to repent and get back on the straight and narrow. Temptations are trials.

Disaffected's perspective: We see that different language is used by believers for those who no longer believe. The same feelings are no longer considered temptation but a desire to sin.

Offended:
Believer's perspective: There is no good reason to lose a testimony. There is no recognition that doctrine, history or action of members and leaders could be offensive. The fault is with the offended person. It is always, I'm sorry YOU were offended, never I'm sorry I offended you.

Disaffected's perspective: There are things that are offensive in the doctrine, history, behaviors and attitudes of the church and some of its leaders and members. Sometimes taking offense to something that is genuinely offensive is the proper response.

Deceived by Satan:
Believer's perspective: The church is true. There is no valid information that could lead you to lose your faith. Any such information is by default false and comes from Satan. So-called logic and reason are always trumped by faith.

Disaffected's perspective: I weighed the facts. I caught church leaders willfully teaching falsehoods. The church is demonstrably false. Why should I value unfounded no-effort faith over hard-earned, well-researched facts.

All will be made right... someday
Believer's perspective: It's foolish and short-sighted to leave the ship at any point because all of the satisfactory answers will be given to us after we die.

Disaffected's perceptive: I can no longer overlook real and genuine issues on a promise that death will fix everything. This kind of terrible advice applies equally well to people of all other religions.

Not enough faith/endurance:
Believer's perspective: You just need to keep praying until you get the right answer.

Disaffected's perspective: I've been praying for X decades. How long does it take? Should I put equal effort into praying about Islam and Scientology just in case maybe someday I'll get an answer that they're true?

Denying the spirit
Believer's perspective: You've felt the spirit, so you know it's true

Disaffected's perspective: People in every religion have felt the spirit telling them their faith is true. I have also felt the spirit about things that turned out not to be true.

Others?

[Servant]

I would print this out and post it on the ward bulletin board.

And put it back up every week adinfinitum.

(Without being seen of course)

Every adult needs to be introduced to this one sided and incorrect aspect of church culture.

(I put my money were my mouth is and leafleted 250 homes with some thoughts, not to destroy, but to inform and get people to think.)

[No Tof]

Thank you Hagoth for these well written thoughts.

I'd like to see a copy of your leaflet too Servant.

So interesting to be able to see it from both sides of the fence. That is sometimes the joy as well as the frustration.

[20/20hind]

No one can understand what it like until you actually experience something.

[Luther Heggs]

The offended "rationale" is one that always gets my goat. Aren't we supposed to let the Holy Ghost teach us in all things? Aren't we also taught to be careful because the Holy Ghost is "easily offended?" Good for the Goose, Good for the Gander.

[RubinHighlander]

Great perspectives Hagoth!

In my resignation letter I made it very clear that I was not offended, that I was not leaving because of any sin I had committed against the church, that my decision was not an easy one and had taken a long time to work through. I stuck to statements that made it clear that I simply no longer believed the Church's truth claims and I no longer agreed with its policies. I did say that I had studied primarily church based information and historical factual evidence. By withholding details they might grab onto, I didn't leave room for argument, as knew they would immediately start thinking through their methods for how they might fix me.

TBM: You can leave the church, but you can't leave it alone.
Me: Well, that's a pretty broad brush.
After I left I certainly stayed here on NOM, but I do not participate in any anti-mormon groups, events or other forums. Bottom line is, there's still a lot of LDS involvement in my life because other family, friends and cooworkers are TBMs. I din't make an ExMo YouTube video (although I've thought about it). I didn't send my letter to everyone in the stake and ward. Utah's government is heavily influenced by the COB and TBMs, so yeah, that sometimes affects me. It also takes quite a while to slough off a life time of indoctrination, but mostly it's very interesting to me to dig deeper into the rabbit hole and be continually surprised by all the crazy things I keep finding in there that make me shake my head in disbelieve that I ever believe it.

TBM: If you leave you'll be miserable, living in sin, your life will fall apart.
Me: I found the evidence contrary, both for my friends and family who left. This has certainly not been true for me or my family.

Actual recent conversation between my NOM son-in-law and his TBM father about a year after SIL and his DW resigned:
Dad: How are things for you and your DW?
Son: We've never been happier, life is actually less complicated and less stressful now.
Dad: Of course it is; Satan does not have to work on you anymore.

So, which is it TBMs? Did Satan pick me up and shake me like a dog and now I'm continually in his clutches? Or, does he not give a crap about me anymore because I just went his way and now he has more minions available to hammer on you? The answer is YES!

[Newme]

I was thinking about the paradigm shift we go thought with a faith transition and how fascinating it is to have had the opportunity to look at these concepts from both sides of the coin, before and after the light switched on:...

Deceived by Satan:
Believer's perspective: The church is true. There is no valid information that could lead you to lose your faith. Any such information is by default false and comes from Satan. So-called logic and reason are always trumped by faith.

Disaffected's perspective: I weighed the facts. I caught church leaders willfully teaching falsehoods. The church is demonstrably false. Why should I value unfounded no-effort faith over hard-earned, well-researched facts.

Not enough faith/endurance:
Believer's perspective: You just need to keep praying until you get the right answer.

Disaffected's perspective: I've been praying for X decades. How long does it take? Should I put equal effort into praying about Islam and Scientology just in case maybe someday I'll get an answer that they're true?

Denying the spirit
Believer's perspective: You've felt the spirit, so you know it's true

Disaffected's perspective: People in every religion have felt the spirit telling them their faith is true. I have also felt the spirit about things that turned out not to be true.

To me, the 3 above are very much related - and are based on the logical fallacy of emotional reasoning.
However, when I've gone too far in the other direction - prioritizing logic and dismissing emotions, it hasn't been good either.
Ideally, there's a good harmonious mix of both reason and faith - thinking and feeling.

To me the 2 biggest problems with the church that STILL hurt people now, are financial corruption and distorted thinking that produces or contributes to mental illness (depression, anxiety, shame etc). In a way, those who think they've "arrived" and have no need to study their own thinking patterns have "damned" themselves - prevented themselves from progressing. And the church has often discouraged psychological exploration - as if psych-ology (study of the soul) is not important. Some GA quotes like (paraphrasing) "a man will get closer to God by abiding by scripture than by reading worldly things" have caused some to shun psychological help they need as if it's the devil, meanwhile they become more devilish.

Others?

That is a good list - one I'd LOVE to post on ward bulletin boards (among other things).

Maybe I'd add one:

Unworthy

Believer's perspective: If you cannot even answer in affirmative the basic temple interview questions, you are not worthy. I know this because people in authority have told me this and so many are going along with it, so it must be true.

Disaffected's perspective: God sees me worthy. The God I believe in would never demanded money and worship of church leaders in exchange for worthiness.

[Vlad the Emailer]

Excellent observations, Hagoth et al.

Regarding this one:

I would print this out and post it on the ward bulletin board.

And put it back up every week adinfinitum.

(Without being seen of course)

Every adult needs to be introduced to this one sided and incorrect aspect of church culture.

(I put my money were my mouth is and leafleted 250 homes with some thoughts, not to destroy, but to inform and get people to think.)

I don't think it's necessary to relate both sides. When I found FAIR just that one side was more than enough to destroy any testimony I ever had. I've had the idea for years that the DAMU community should do a ward bulletin board campaign. No one could even claim it was any type of anti-Mormon scheme, FAIR are the good guys!! I would word the notice something like: "Does your nonmember friend or family member have questions? There are answers. FAIR - critical questions, faithful answers."

Also, sorry, I just "can't leave this alone". I've always been amused by the "people leave the church, but can't leave it alone" bullcrap. Beyond the fact that many in the DAMU can't leave it alone because at least a part of our families are still in and that means it is still a part of our lives; the Mormon Church is notorious for not leaving people alone. Home teachers, visiting teachers, priesthood leaders, etc., etc. often dog people for years that don't want contact. I've even seen/heard of some leaders that pride themselves on ignoring the DNC list and sending missionaries or someone else over just to keep the church in the face and mind of people that don't want it there. And talk about not leaving people alone, the church has an army out knocking on the same doors over and over (we tracted out some areas is my small soCal mission 6 times per year!) and/or recontacting former investigators again and again, looking for another baptism - another number.

And what about the fact that the church has taken months, years, and in many cases decades of our time away, plus many thousands of dollars, in most cases, all for an organization founded on, and living on, cover ups and deceptions? Many of us gave up to 2 years of our precious youth to further this cause, never knowing the actual truth. And we paid for the privilege!! Then we made major life decisions (some life and death ) trying to remain faithful to what we were taught by the profit; in many instances very bad decisions. And yet we're just supposed to "leave it alone"?????

Sorry for the rant. That one just really gets to me.

[Hagoth]

It's like people who have come home from war with PTSD. They left the war, why can't they just leave it alone?

[alas]

It's like people who have come home from war with PTSD. They left the war, why can't they just leave it alone?

How many here have nightmares about the church? Things like being back in the mission field? I know I have one recurring dream where I am in a church building and I cannot find my way out, and my husband isn't helping me find the way out, but keeps wandering off and going to another SS class, even though we finished our meetings hours ago and I am tired and want to go home, but the building has no exits.

Well, this kind of recurring nightmare is PTSD. So, no wonder we can't leave it alone. We are still processing the trauma of the betrayal of our trust. PTSD is not just caused by any old trauma. There are things like the trauma is human caused: war, rape, mugging, assault, that are pretty necessary elements for a trauma to cause PTSD. An earthquake may cause trauma and a mild or temporary PTSD, but for the long term debilitating PTSD, that element of our trust in humanity being shattered is pretty much always part of why PTSD lingers and causes so much psychological distress. So, imagine growing up in a situation and then finding out that people have been lying to you for years and part of the lie seems to be a conspiracy to keep people sending money. Although there is no life threatening danger, that aspect of shattered trust in humanity is there big time. There may be no threat to your life in a physical sense, but you found out your whole life is a lie, and if that isn't emotionally life threatening, then I don't know what is.

[Just This Guy]

Origin of the Book of Mormon:

Believer's perspective: Because we do not know exactly how the translation was done, the only way to explain it is divine inspiration.

Disaffected's perspective: While we do not know exactly how it was done, there are a number of theories that adequately explain how it may have been done without any divine participation.