"Telling the truth never helps you."

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Thoughtful
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"Telling the truth never helps you."

Post by Thoughtful » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:46 pm

I do some consulting with Juvenile Justice.

An LEO I provide support for was telling me about some of our case updates, and we were discussing differing accounts of the same event from different players.

I outlined my typical method for creating intervention plans, noting that we assume all stories are skewed to benefit the person reporting.

He said, "people learn early on that telling the truth to authority will never benefit them."

He of course works with children 8-18 who have learned this lesson. I learned it at about 33, after the shelf shattered. I still have to consciously monitor my learned value that honesty always wins with having a filter to protect myself.

Anyway, one more "street smart" we dont attain as TBM, making us vulnerable and naive while leaders do NOT employ honesty as their best policy, while preaching it. For shame.

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Palerider
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Re: "Telling the truth never helps you."

Post by Palerider » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:11 pm

Yep.

They expect total and complete honesty in a temple recommend interview but try and be the first in Gospel doctrine or as a missionary teaching an "investigator" to initiate an honest conversation about Joseph's plural marriage, blacks and the priesthood, difficulties with the Book of Abraham and see just how fast you get tamped down.

Try this on Sunday.

"Hello class! Today we're going to discuss what is called the 2nd Anointing!"

Half the class will be giving you this. :shock:

The other half will be preparing to shut you down in the nicest way outside of binding, gagging and carrying you out of the room if necessary. :roll:

By the way. I still believe honesty is the best policy.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

Apologeticsislying
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Re: "Telling the truth never helps you."

Post by Apologeticsislying » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:01 pm

It's the same thing online. I joined Moksha over there on Peterson's board, Sic et Non, and Dan only wants to talk about me and what a bad boy I have been for mocking him and Lou. He won't engage in ANY topic, other than ad hominim. He wants to talk through NOTHING. I figured that would be the case, and truth be told, I was disappointed that it is their method now. They discuss NOTHING, but rant about how mean the world is against their sacred beliefs.
The same energy that emerges from the fountain of eternity into time, is the Holy Grail at the center of the universe of the inexhaustible vitality in each of our hearts. The Holy Grail, like the Kingdom of God, is within. -Joseph Campbell-

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Hagoth
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Re: "Telling the truth never helps you."

Post by Hagoth » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:23 pm

Palerider wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:11 pm
By the way. I still believe honesty is the best policy.
I don't believe you.








;)
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Apologeticsislying
Posts: 318
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Re: "Telling the truth never helps you."

Post by Apologeticsislying » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:51 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:23 pm
Palerider wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:11 pm
By the way. I still believe honesty is the best policy.
I don't believe you.








;)
Believe me, you need to believe him..... :lol:
The same energy that emerges from the fountain of eternity into time, is the Holy Grail at the center of the universe of the inexhaustible vitality in each of our hearts. The Holy Grail, like the Kingdom of God, is within. -Joseph Campbell-

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moksha
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Re: "Telling the truth never helps you."

Post by moksha » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:17 pm

Palerider wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:11 pm
By the way. I still believe honesty is the best policy.
Trying to derail the Trump administration, eh?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Reuben
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Re: "Telling the truth never helps you."

Post by Reuben » Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:57 am

moksha wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:17 pm
Palerider wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:11 pm
By the way. I still believe honesty is the best policy.
Trying to derail the Trump administration, eh?
Hey, Trump is honest. He just doesn't let facts get in the way of his thoughts.

Anyway... I have a difficult time being dishonest, or even opaque. (I have a few theories about why, and "autism spectrum" summarizes them nicely.) I've decided my way to deal with this is to never put myself in the power of a person or organization who would punish me just for telling the truth.

Yeah. Having a hard time with that.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

Thoughtful
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Re: "Telling the truth never helps you."

Post by Thoughtful » Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:02 am

Reuben wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:57 am
moksha wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:17 pm
Palerider wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:11 pm
By the way. I still believe honesty is the best policy.
Trying to derail the Trump administration, eh?
Hey, Trump is honest. He just doesn't let facts get in the way of his thoughts.

Anyway... I have a difficult time being dishonest, or even opaque. (I have a few theories about why, and "autism spectrum" summarizes them nicely.) I've decided my way to deal with this is to never put myself in the power of a person or organization who would punish me just for telling the truth.

Yeah. Having a hard time with that.
Yeah, I feel similarly to this.

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Palerider
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Re: "Telling the truth never helps you."

Post by Palerider » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:04 am

I've had numerous occasions in my life where telling the truth created very painful situations for myself and others. Sometimes it got ugly.

But I survived. And so did they.

Probably one of the most important things I learned was that sometimes you have to stand alone, especially when telling the truth is not what the popular "friends" you have want you to do.

Telling the truth actually showed me many times who the people were that were true friends and also those who might not exactly be friends but were people of character who could be counted on when things got tough.

I understand why people shade the truth from time to time. I'm not perfect either by any means. But I do know that one way or another payment still comes due on the untruth we allow ourselves to buy into.

What most people don't realize is that before one can misrepresent the truth to someone else, we have to lie to ourselves that it's "okay" to do that.

Isn't that exactly what church leadership have done for years and years? They've told themselves that it's alright to withhold or suppress the truth for "the good of the members"? And now they just don't get why exiting members don't TRUST them anymore. It's a mystery.

Which tells me that those leaders aren't nearly the deep thinkers they've been advertised to be.

I work with people and their horses from time to time. Good horsemanship is truly an athletic endeavor. I see people who are 50, sometimes 75-100 pounds over weight, who have zero muscle tone, trying to ride a 1200 pound animal that if something goes wrong, that person will likely suffer severe bodily harm or death.

Yet, if I tell them that they are over weight and have zero business trying to ride a horse, they get extremely upset and think I'm a real A-hole for suggesting such a thing.

But if I ignore the obvious problem and say nothing, then I withhold truth that might have saved that person by making them aware of the reality of the situation. I actually become part of the problem myself.

I'm 66 years old. I have a specific exercise and stretching regimen that I painfully go through every day in order to stay healthy enough to ride properly. It isn't easy. I feel it all over. I probably have only another 10 years of riding left and that's if I'm really lucky. I have to know when to quit and be thankful for the time I had. A person can lie to themselves in horseback riding but there's always a consequence. A price to be paid somewhere down the road.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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deacon blues
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Re: "Telling the truth never helps you."

Post by deacon blues » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:59 am

One of my favorite poems:

Tell all the truth but tell it slant —
Success in Circuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth's superb surprise
As Lightning to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind — Emily Dickinson
God is Love. God is Truth

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