Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

[græy]

I was a founding listener to the Marriage on a Tightrope podcast. After the first few episodes I invited DW to listen as well, and to my surprise, she did. After the first 10 or so episodes she started to pull back a bit and now generally only listens to new episodes when I specifically recommend one. That said, when the new round of Marriage on a Tightrope workshop classes came up this summer, I asked if she'd be interested and she agreed!

It has been awesome!

Conversations that previously just led to crying and shutting down have now been possible and even productive! I feel we have made great progress in terms of her actually understanding where I am at with my belief and willingness to participate in church. It has been a breath of fresh air for both of us.

Our previous attempts at therapy fell through, and now that we've gone through this class, I'm glad they did. We are still planning therapy for the not-too-distant future, but these classes have definitely started us off on a positive path for working through differences.

[Random]

That's awesome, Graey!

[jfro18]

That sounds really promising and hopefully it opens some doors up. I hope you let Allan know if you haven't - he's been great to follow on Facebook (I have not had any interactions with his wife outside of listening to their interview with RFM) and I know their podcast has helped a lot of people!

[græy]

I recently learned of our ward council's plans to contact families who don't seem to be coming back from the pandemic quarantine (https://newordermormon.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5528), and shared that plan with my DW.

I had also previously mentioned the recent leadership training (https://newordermormon.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5512) where the visiting 70 just seemed to exude fear that people won't return.

After I mentioned the ward's new plan to contact everyone, DW laughed a bit and commented that they should be afraid, lots of people are "choosing to be lazy and probably won't come back. Like you."

I nearly lost it and spoke/yelled back. I am NOT lazy. I have been doing everything for this ward for the past 4 1/2 years in the bishopric and now as EQP! And I am still here!

I stopped there, but wish I had kept going.

I have been going to meetings, service projects, moves. I organized meetings, found speakers, gave dozens of talks myself (which is not easy when I have to plan every single word to avoid feeling like I'm lying). I've had late-night phone calls with guys going through divorce, given mask-clad blessing to single ladies who were dying of cancer or afraid their children were dying of COVID. And I am still here!

Most church members (including DW) don't read, they don't study, at least not anything beyond their daily recommended 10 minutes of BoM indoctrination. I have been studying, reading, pondering just about everything I can get my hands on for almost 5 years now! I've put more time into learning about historical Jesus, the gospel, the apostacy, the restoration, and modern prophets in the past months than most active members do in their lifetime. And she sees me as the lazy one!?

My beliefs have changed, but I don't despise going to church because I've become lazy. I don't want to go to meetings because they cannot give what they claim to provide. The church and most of its members aren't any better at discerning truth from lies when it stands on a national political debate platform and looks them in the face than they are when it is crying at them from behind a pulpit.

Maybe the people who aren't coming back aren't lazy either. Maybe they just realized they aren't getting anything out of their relationship with the church other than shortened weekends, Sundays fully of stress and family fighting, and guilt for all those sins of omission.

[Red Ryder]

There’s worse things to be called in the Mormon church:

1. Porn addict
2. Offended
3. Unbeliever
4. Unworthy

I’d rather be called lazy than unworthy.

Wear your lazy badge with honor!

Seriously though, you’re going to break down someday and quit like the rest of us lazy apostates that carried the ward on our shoulders.

[jfro18]

So sorry græy... that's a punch to the gut when you hear things like that, and I know it can be hard to restrain the response to it.

You're probably better off for stopping where you did although I'm sure it would've felt better in the short term to keep going.

I have no words of wisdom since I'm not in a better place than you with this stuf, but I definitely feel for you on that one and hope things get better.

[Linked]

Wow græy, that is terrible, I'm sorry your DW said that to you. Have you guys talked about it since then at all and did she apologize? Because she really owes you an apology. You've busted your @$$ entirely for her, putting yourself in mental anguish for many hours a week, and her response is to attack you by calling you lazy.

I've had some luck with things my DW has said that hurt me by bringing them up calmly days or weeks later. She usually brushes it aside and says that of course that's not what she meant which isn't very satisfying, but it let's her know what is a problem.

Hang in there!

[græy]

Thanks, RR, jfro18, and Linked. In retrospect it is better that I stopped there.

In the words of Portnoy Gary and Angelo Judy Hart - It helps having a place to come where people are glad we came. A place where we can see our troubles are all the same. It helps to be where everybody knows our pseudonym.

Haha, okay, I'm lame. Sorry for that.

[River Morgan2]

Græy, the more of your posts I read, the more honored I feel to be getting to know you.

If it helps at all, I was your DW for years 5 through 20 of my marriage. Spouse was quite disenchanted by the time he came home from his mission, and then about year five of our marriage he had an experience that drove him straight out of the church mentally and emotionally. But he hung on and played the game with me for another 15 years while I figured out what he already knew.

One of the reasons why I love him is that he hung on while I was presenting all of the arguments that your wife is telling you.

River

[græy]

Thank you, River Morgan. That actually means a lot to me and it helps to hear.

I sometimes feel like my telling of events is a little to one-sided here on NOM. My wife is often very supportive, and I believe we will work through a lot of these things given some time.

A lot of the struggle stems from me riding the fence so much. I'm mentally 100% out of the church. But I'm still fully active as viewed from anyone not inside my head. On one hand I don't want to be part of the church. On the other, my family is in the church and I don't want to be told I can't participate with them in their coming-of-age milestones simply because I took my blinders off. A secondary concern is how intertwined our lives are with the bishops, high-councilmen, and stake presidency members of our area - they aren't part of our social circle, they ARE our social circle.

Thanks, again.

[River Morgan2]

...A secondary concern is how intertwined our lives are with the bishops, high-councilmen, and stake presidency members of our area - they aren't part of our social circle, they ARE our social circle.

Thanks, again.

I'm sure you've already heard this from other sources, but I am here to tell you that it doesn't matter how good your friendship was with the Stake President, as soon as you become a known heretic you will have heretic cooties.

This is a soapbox item for me. Catholics can have Protestant friends and Jewish friends, etc. But a Mormon is afraid to associate with anyone who isn't Mormon as well. It almost sounds like that word that should not be mentioned. Cough*cult*cough.

River