Graceful Transfer of Power

Chat about a topic supported by books, TED Talks, podcasts, personal experience, philosophies of mankind mingled with humor (shout out to IOT), and maybe we’ll even do a google hangout or conference call once a month.
Cnsl1
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Cnsl1 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:04 am

MoPag wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:59 am
moksha wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:47 pm
Captain Moroni quote is part of today's US Capitol Sedition mob take over.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... _capitol/?

Image
Someone interviewed him! :lol: :lol:

https://www.facebook.com/MacGyverDood71 ... 5005484769

That's pretty funny .. And ironic. Seems like Mr Moron¡ there is actually fighting FOR the kingman and against the free men--fighting to disrupt the process of democracy and peaceful transfer of power in a free nation that his religion says is God given and inspired. And sounds like he's up on his DNA... all those Jewish American Indians we got right here in this country. Yes sir.

And so good of him to mention Sam. Poor Sam .. that dude never gets the attention he deserves. Nephi gets the praise, of course. And well earned.. he's the guy that did the hard stuff, faced the moral dilemma, decapitated Laban, made the metal compound bow, smelted plates, built a ship, etc. Laman and Lemuel of course were the double black sheep always acting up and being all murmury. Jacob and Joseph got to write some stuff and get their blessings published, and play around with the leader sword and all, but Sam. Poor Sam. He's the book of Mormon afterthought. He was good, but not quite good enough that the Lord trusted him to etch a chapter, or lead an army, or get a revelation or anything. I also heard he got stuck with the crankiest of Ishmael's daughters. I know, right!? Poor guy. But did Sam complain? No sir. Well, yeah, after they'd been to the new world about five years he started fermenting the agave, and he'd spend a good bit of his time after work in this little distillery tent, but who could blame him, right? I mean that lady of his could really get under your skin. And I'm not sure about this, so don't spread it around, but yeah I heard that she had a thing for Zoram and had a little ship fling with him on the trip over. But Sam stayed married to her cuz that's the kind of guy he was. So it's really cool we got to hear about him from that dumbass on TV.

Peace, Sam.

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Hagoth
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Hagoth » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:01 am

MoPag wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:59 am
Someone interviewed him! :lol: :lol:
https://www.facebook.com/MacGyverDood71 ... 5005484769
The best part was when someone made a sloppy attempt to edit out the reference to violence, "So the Freemen slayed the Kingm..."
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by moksha » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:23 am

That LDS returned missionary from Idaho, Josiah Colt, who climbed down into the House Chamber and sat in the Speaker's seat while spouting treasonous rhetoric was pretty athletic, eh? Do you think anybody will buy that video apology he made to the people of Idaho? After Trump grants a pardon to all those arrested in the Treason Weasel Insurrection, wonder if he will be slated in to become a bishop for his ward?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

hmb
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by hmb » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:42 am

Has there been any statement from the LDS church regarding the events of Jan. 6, STRONGLY denouncing the actions of those who broke in? Those who carried weapons/restraint ties? Have they come out to denounce church members that were or may have been involved? I'm confused at a church that is supposed to have divine intervention, have a one-up on what's to come, could back up Trump for 4 years. The church preaches unconditional love, but Trump's "love" is based on strict conditions. He is so opposite of Christ. You could be a lapdog for Trump, his favorite, and one decision to follow the constitution instead of Trump gets your life threatened. I don't understand how the LDS church can allow this. So have there been any strong messages against the terrorists involved (any person involved, Trumpian or other wise)?

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:50 pm

hmb wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:42 am
Has there been any statement from the LDS church regarding the events of Jan. 6, STRONGLY denouncing the actions of those who broke in? Those who carried weapons/restraint ties? Have they come out to denounce church members that were or may have been involved? I'm confused at a church that is supposed to have divine intervention, have a one-up on what's to come, could back up Trump for 4 years. The church preaches unconditional love, but Trump's "love" is based on strict conditions. He is so opposite of Christ. You could be a lapdog for Trump, his favorite, and one decision to follow the constitution instead of Trump gets your life threatened. I don't understand how the LDS church can allow this. So have there been any strong messages against the terrorists involved (any person involved, Trumpian or other wise)?
Hmm, this is an interesting concept. Using church to peddle your point.

Did the church condemn BLM when people were getting shot in Provo? The people of a church can take a stand and denounce anything they want. But the church can or they would become a political entity if it denounced anything. The Vatican says things from time to time, but they are not exactly an American church. But if the Archbishop of Philadelphia denounced a political act, they might open themselves up to bad things, not sure what.

Do you think protesting DC was wrong?

hmb
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by hmb » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:19 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:50 pm
hmb wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:42 am
Has there been any statement from the LDS church regarding the events of Jan. 6, STRONGLY denouncing the actions of those who broke in? Those who carried weapons/restraint ties? Have they come out to denounce church members that were or may have been involved? I'm confused at a church that is supposed to have divine intervention, have a one-up on what's to come, could back up Trump for 4 years. The church preaches unconditional love, but Trump's "love" is based on strict conditions. He is so opposite of Christ. You could be a lapdog for Trump, his favorite, and one decision to follow the constitution instead of Trump gets your life threatened. I don't understand how the LDS church can allow this. So have there been any strong messages against the terrorists involved (any person involved, Trumpian or other wise)?
Hmm, this is an interesting concept. Using church to peddle your point.

Did the church condemn BLM when people were getting shot in Provo? The people of a church can take a stand and denounce anything they want. But the church can or they would become a political entity if it denounced anything. The Vatican says things from time to time, but they are not exactly an American church. But if the Archbishop of Philadelphia denounced a political act, they might open themselves up to bad things, not sure what.

Do you think protesting DC was wrong?
I think protesting is fine, legal, and a right. Rioting is not fine, legal, or a right. It isn't right for ANY group, regardless of party or reason, to incite violence. I asked, because I was reading some people's opinions regarding the church being quite silent on the matter. I'm not using the church to peddle any point. I don't do church any longer. I associate with many church members because I grew up in the culture and will forever have ties. This should be a safe place to ask if anyone has heard anything. If you haven't heard anything to answer my question, either say so, or don't say anything. I'm not spurring for an argument.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:28 pm

I haven't heard anything.

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moksha
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by moksha » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:25 am

Republican rioters were able to make off with computer notebooks and lecterns but missed out on big-screen TVs. They did leave behind pipebombs, firearms, and Molotov cocktails, perhaps in recompense.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

shrugged
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Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by shrugged » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:47 am

I appreciate, SN, that you acknowledge that not all BLM protestors were wrong to be angry or took up violence. I have zero problem with Trump supporters peacefully protesting, marching, waving flags, chanting, what not. And I assume the majority of those there on Jan 6 did not enter the capitol or assault police. But those that did lay siege on the Capitol are traitors and should spend time in jail. Maybe Gitmo has room for them.

Most BLM protestors were within their rights. Some looted and rioted which is wrong.

Most Trump supporters on Jan 6 protested within their rights. Some attacked the Capitol building which is wrong.

Why can’t we all agree that both of those statements are true.

I don’t think Trump’s speech itself rises to the level of a criminal conviction for inciting violence (beyond a reasonable doubt). If it’s determined that his staff struggled to convince him to approve activation of the National Guard and/or to issue statements calling his supporters to retreat while his VP was being hunted, I think that makes up for any lack of a literal call to violence.

Legalities aside, I do expect someone in the office of the President to operate with greater judgement and do more to protect and defend the Constitution as he swore in his oath of office. Illegal or not, what he did was outrageous wicked.


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shrugged
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by shrugged » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:50 am

Shared from a friend

A helpful rule of thumb:

Huge numbers of our population believe in a complete alternate reality. Alternate facts as it were.

But just as intensely as I believe they are deluded, they think I am the one who is deluded. Maybe I am. So how can I be confident in my perception? It can be quite difficult.

But, I have found that in times of political confusion, particularly when emotions are running high and creating tunnel vision, the presence of Nazis can be an extremely helpful indicator.

If I am attending a local demonstration or event and I see Nazis…neo-Nazis, casual Nazis, master race Nazis, or the latest-whatever-uber-mythology-Nazis, I figure out which side they are on.

And if they are on my side of the demonstration? I am on the wrong side.

It is tough to argue moral equivalence when I am standing next to a Nazi. Look to my right. Is there a guy wearing a 6MWE (6 million wasn’t enough) t-shirt? I am on the wrong side. Look to my left. If that guy is wearing a Camp Auschwitz t-shirt? Wrong side. Are Speakers being applauded for referring to things that Hitler got right? Wrong side. Team-spirit face paint and hat with animal horns? This is actually an unclear indicator that could mean anything, but safest to keep my distance from that guy anyway, even at a football game.

However, I can always, always, always rely on the presence of Nazis as a guiding light through a fog of disinformation.

Some things are relative, and politics can absolutely have it’s opposing sides and grey areas.

But evil and good are absolute. As are the lessons of history. So, just look for the Nazis, and make your own decisions.


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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:28 pm

shrugged wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:47 am
I appreciate, SN, that you acknowledge that not all BLM protestors were wrong to be angry or took up violence. I have zero problem with Trump supporters peacefully protesting, marching, waving flags, chanting, what not. And I assume the majority of those there on Jan 6 did not enter the capitol or assault police. But those that did lay siege on the Capitol are traitors and should spend time in jail. Maybe Gitmo has room for them.

Most BLM protestors were within their rights. Some looted and rioted which is wrong.

Most Trump supporters on Jan 6 protested within their rights. Some attacked the Capitol building which is wrong.

Why can’t we all agree that both of those statements are true.

I don’t think Trump’s speech itself rises to the level of a criminal conviction for inciting violence (beyond a reasonable doubt). If it’s determined that his staff struggled to convince him to approve activation of the National Guard and/or to issue statements calling his supporters to retreat while his VP was being hunted, I think that makes up for any lack of a literal call to violence.

Legalities aside, I do expect someone in the office of the President to operate with greater judgement and do more to protect and defend the Constitution as he swore in his oath of office. Illegal or not, what he did was outrageous wicked.


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I can agree with pretty much everything you said. And I appreciate that you acknowledge that Trump's speech was not to create violence.

There's a lot to be said for presentation and delivery. Trump is rather coarse and offends people merely by the color of his skin. But as I recall, Obama with his soft reflective voice, basically incited violence that went on for weeks in a couple of different cases. The quiet words, " that could have been my son. " Apparently that was enough to tear up several cities. And he never really called for an end to it. As a result of his behavior, many conservatives consider his administration to be a step back in racial relations in America.

I am aware of things that I have no ability to be prove or to even be sure that I want to share. But I feel compelled to so at least you guys can make fun of me later. Trump called his supporters down into Washington DC and he used the word "wild rally." This seemed so weird to me. He might have said that at his rally, but I've never heard or expected him to say it on TV to the nation.

So I will just blurt it out. This might have been an unannounced, or a no-knock raid on the Capitol building. supposably they have retained several laptops from top Congress people and senators. The man who was in Nancy pelosi's office even had a letter in his pocket. Her laptop and several others were taken. Nearly the next day, and what is being announced as outrage, Congress moved to have Trump impeached or removed from office. Many of his staff have quit or resigned. It could be for several reasons. But one reason that has been given by supposedly people in the know, is that those staff members were on a list on Nancy pelosi's computer. They are freaking out. Nancy hasn't been to Congress for a few days now. I think she is still calling it in.

It is almost sad. When I began to read into what I am being told is happening, so many stories and things that I have studied most of my life began to click into place.

Three days before JFK died he announced that he had discovered a plot to harm the American people. Supposably, the military took a look at what he was talking about. Some of that might come to a head. And the mention of Gitmo....., I hear they have added rooms.

shrugged
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by shrugged » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:15 pm

MoPag wrote:
moksha wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:47 pm
Captain Moroni quote is part of today's US Capitol Sedition mob take over.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... _capitol/?

Image
Someone interviewed him! :lol: :lol:

https://www.facebook.com/MacGyverDood71 ... 5005484769
I just saw a comment on this video that cracked me up.

“This guy took Sunday School too serious, but a shout out to the Relief Society for the costume.” Image


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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:15 pm

shrugged wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:50 am
Shared from a friend

And if they are on my side of the demonstration? I am on the wrong side.
There is a process that the soul goes through. A young soul identifies itself from external references. That is why the church is so important. Chruches give young souls concepts of goodness and God to compare themselves to. It's rather annoying being talking to someone that thinks they are "good" because they go to bible class, or know the prophet's grandchild's puppy. Judging your worthiness based on which team you are on is. . . . immature. I know my team has issues. But what I am doing, is about me, not them.

A mature soul knows God within and doesn't need external references to know their purpose or goodness. That doesn't mean they don't read feedback, but they don't need to be on the "Saint's Team" to be clear of their purpose.

shrugged
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by shrugged » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:08 am

SN- “I’ll be walking with you.” Trump lie or no?


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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:51 am

shrugged wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:08 am
SN- “I’ll be walking with you.” Trump lie or no?


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I'm sorry, what is the context of this? Did he say this in a speech?

shrugged
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by shrugged » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:51 am

During his speech at the Jan 6 rally. He urged them to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol and said he’d walk with them. But he went back to the White House instead.


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SaidNobody
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:56 pm

shrugged wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:51 am
During his speech at the Jan 6 rally. He urged them to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol and said he’d walk with them. But he went back to the White House instead.


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With the President, it's always a maybe. I remember one time during Obama's inauguration he drove down the streets with the masses. They allowed him to stop in between two large buildings to get out for a moment to shake a couple of hands. That was so that no snipers from the distance could get to him. Sometimes they simply don't let the president go where he would like when there's too much danger. If it was as I suspect, and antifa was there.

I remember the wording was I might walk with you or I might be there. It's never really his choice. I have seen Trump basically wade through the fires of hell to try to get to the places where his presence meant something. I would bet my best pair of shoes that the secret service would not allow him to walk.

Cnsl1
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Re: Graceful Transfer of Power

Post by Cnsl1 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 pm


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