Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
I missed month two and I'm about a week early on this one, but it is what it is.
LGBTQ
I have had no less then three people in my ward express heartfelt support for LGBTQ individuals in private conversations. In all three cases, the individuals seemed to think I might try to correct them or disagree with their viewpoint. I was happy to let them know I see nothing wrong with supporting LGTBQ rights and, contrary to their expectations, believe the church has a great deal of repenting to do on this matter.
Interviews with Minors
I have had some young men approach me and ask to talk about private matters. When issues of pornography and masturbation come up my emphasis is to let them know they are 100% normal, their feelings and the pull they feel towards sexual thoughts and action is God-given and therefore should not be shamed or repressed. I try to let them know that while they should discontinue practices that cause them to feel guilt, they have done nothing that would make them unworthy in any way.
For bishop's interviews that I and my counselors initiate parents are always encouraged to attend the actual interview with the permission of the child. Most parents seem to appreciate the option and nearly always have been in the room with us. I have also had conversations with one mother who has been going through a terrible divorce from an incredibly manipulative man for a few years now. She specifically requested no 1-on-1 interviews and absolutely no sexual/chastity questions for her daughters. Since I was already following that policy anyway I let her know I fully supported her.
Thank You Cards
I have magically become someone that people talk about in family home evenings. They write thank-you cards, and randomly deliver plates of cookies to my home. I love chocolate chip cookies, so I hate to complain, but I also feel uncomfortable with the whole thing. I'm the same guy I was six months ago and prepending "Bishop" to my church name does not mean their kids should be taught to trust me implicitly. I don't really know where I'm going with this...
Vacation Time
Three months in and I've had to use 3 days of personal vacation time from work to help out at weekday youth activities organized mostly by the stake. Not cool and not something I will continue to do in the future. If the stake wants to organize weekday activities then those organizers will have to staff the whole thing.
COVID Break
Several people, including the YW President, a single mother without a current calling, former Primary President, and a few others have privately expressed that the COVID shutdown was a huge relief for them. When church and its meetings all stopped they felt like the could finally breathe for the first time. They slept well on Saturday nights, and enjoyed entire weekends, for the first time. They weren't rushing around from pointless church activity to pointless church activity for the first time. A few even noted they were able to take family vacations of meaningful length without stressing about missing church for the first time. It was remarkable how similar their expressions of relief were given the large number of people and the variety in their circumstances.
I think many of them told me hesitantly, expecting to be reprimanded or reminded how critical it is to come to church every week. But all I told them was that I agreed and hoped the church's march toward "simplification" would continue.
Numbers
Our ward has shrunk, significantly. That is somewhat due to people leaving after COVID. A couple of families or individuals seem to have simply decided not to come back. I think the bigger cause in our ward is demographics. People have moved out and housing prices are preventing anyone else from moving in. An immediately adjacent ward with cheaper housing has grown from ~150/wk to almost 300/wk attendance. In the same time, our ward has gone from ~150/wk to barely ~100/wk many of whom go home after sacrament rather than stick around for 2nd hour. We are unable to fill many callings and several primary/SS classes are way too big but there is nothing we can really do about it at the moment.
Missionary Efforts
Nearly all of the current investigators in our ward are in need of some sort. Whether financial assistance or help getting rides around town or to work. They meet the missionaries - missionaries offer help of any kind - investigators take lesson and ask for money or rides - missionaries reach out to ward to provide promised help. Two investigators have even committed to baptism and then canceled as the date got closer and then disappear off the map. The only affect the current missionary effort is having in our ward is to burn out the few members who actually try to help.
DW
Mrs. Græy recently met up with a friend she hadn't seen in a couple years. This friend's husband was an (extremely orthodox bishop himself a few years ago for about 2 1/2 years until they moved. There was a recent rumor that the family had left the church, but that turned out to be false. They still go to church and their youngest is about to be baptized. However, the former-bishop-husband has apparently turned down all recent callings in order to serve in volunteer positions within the community.
DW is convinced that this man has also gone down the rabbit hole towards disbelief. I'm not so sure, but it is obvious that something has changed in his view of the Restored Gospel (TM).
Me
There are good days and bad days. Overall this whole gig isn't as terrible as I'd feared, although I still can't say accepting this calling wasn't a colossal mistake. Given all the conversations I had with DW leading up to accepting this calling, and all the discoveries of other nuanced members she has made in the last few months, I do feel like we are on better ground as a couple than ever before.
When visiting my own siblings last month one said they felt awkward hanging out with a bishop. Another said they would feel bad about swearing around me (they don't swear anyway). A third said their view of bishops has changed recently and they now recognize that bishops are just regular people with their own problems - I'm not sure if I should take that last one personally or not. Either way, I'm grateful for my non-member friends who don't give a f*** what my church calls me. They're still my friends with no change in perception or attitude.
LGBTQ
I have had no less then three people in my ward express heartfelt support for LGBTQ individuals in private conversations. In all three cases, the individuals seemed to think I might try to correct them or disagree with their viewpoint. I was happy to let them know I see nothing wrong with supporting LGTBQ rights and, contrary to their expectations, believe the church has a great deal of repenting to do on this matter.
Interviews with Minors
I have had some young men approach me and ask to talk about private matters. When issues of pornography and masturbation come up my emphasis is to let them know they are 100% normal, their feelings and the pull they feel towards sexual thoughts and action is God-given and therefore should not be shamed or repressed. I try to let them know that while they should discontinue practices that cause them to feel guilt, they have done nothing that would make them unworthy in any way.
For bishop's interviews that I and my counselors initiate parents are always encouraged to attend the actual interview with the permission of the child. Most parents seem to appreciate the option and nearly always have been in the room with us. I have also had conversations with one mother who has been going through a terrible divorce from an incredibly manipulative man for a few years now. She specifically requested no 1-on-1 interviews and absolutely no sexual/chastity questions for her daughters. Since I was already following that policy anyway I let her know I fully supported her.
Thank You Cards
I have magically become someone that people talk about in family home evenings. They write thank-you cards, and randomly deliver plates of cookies to my home. I love chocolate chip cookies, so I hate to complain, but I also feel uncomfortable with the whole thing. I'm the same guy I was six months ago and prepending "Bishop" to my church name does not mean their kids should be taught to trust me implicitly. I don't really know where I'm going with this...
Vacation Time
Three months in and I've had to use 3 days of personal vacation time from work to help out at weekday youth activities organized mostly by the stake. Not cool and not something I will continue to do in the future. If the stake wants to organize weekday activities then those organizers will have to staff the whole thing.
COVID Break
Several people, including the YW President, a single mother without a current calling, former Primary President, and a few others have privately expressed that the COVID shutdown was a huge relief for them. When church and its meetings all stopped they felt like the could finally breathe for the first time. They slept well on Saturday nights, and enjoyed entire weekends, for the first time. They weren't rushing around from pointless church activity to pointless church activity for the first time. A few even noted they were able to take family vacations of meaningful length without stressing about missing church for the first time. It was remarkable how similar their expressions of relief were given the large number of people and the variety in their circumstances.
I think many of them told me hesitantly, expecting to be reprimanded or reminded how critical it is to come to church every week. But all I told them was that I agreed and hoped the church's march toward "simplification" would continue.
Numbers
Our ward has shrunk, significantly. That is somewhat due to people leaving after COVID. A couple of families or individuals seem to have simply decided not to come back. I think the bigger cause in our ward is demographics. People have moved out and housing prices are preventing anyone else from moving in. An immediately adjacent ward with cheaper housing has grown from ~150/wk to almost 300/wk attendance. In the same time, our ward has gone from ~150/wk to barely ~100/wk many of whom go home after sacrament rather than stick around for 2nd hour. We are unable to fill many callings and several primary/SS classes are way too big but there is nothing we can really do about it at the moment.
Missionary Efforts
Nearly all of the current investigators in our ward are in need of some sort. Whether financial assistance or help getting rides around town or to work. They meet the missionaries - missionaries offer help of any kind - investigators take lesson and ask for money or rides - missionaries reach out to ward to provide promised help. Two investigators have even committed to baptism and then canceled as the date got closer and then disappear off the map. The only affect the current missionary effort is having in our ward is to burn out the few members who actually try to help.
DW
Mrs. Græy recently met up with a friend she hadn't seen in a couple years. This friend's husband was an (extremely orthodox bishop himself a few years ago for about 2 1/2 years until they moved. There was a recent rumor that the family had left the church, but that turned out to be false. They still go to church and their youngest is about to be baptized. However, the former-bishop-husband has apparently turned down all recent callings in order to serve in volunteer positions within the community.
DW is convinced that this man has also gone down the rabbit hole towards disbelief. I'm not so sure, but it is obvious that something has changed in his view of the Restored Gospel (TM).
Me
There are good days and bad days. Overall this whole gig isn't as terrible as I'd feared, although I still can't say accepting this calling wasn't a colossal mistake. Given all the conversations I had with DW leading up to accepting this calling, and all the discoveries of other nuanced members she has made in the last few months, I do feel like we are on better ground as a couple than ever before.
When visiting my own siblings last month one said they felt awkward hanging out with a bishop. Another said they would feel bad about swearing around me (they don't swear anyway). A third said their view of bishops has changed recently and they now recognize that bishops are just regular people with their own problems - I'm not sure if I should take that last one personally or not. Either way, I'm grateful for my non-member friends who don't give a f*** what my church calls me. They're still my friends with no change in perception or attitude.
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Loved your report. It sounds like you are finding some open minded NOMs in your own ward.
One of the parts that jumped out at me was the 1:1 worthiness interviews. Are these interviews really needed at all? Can’t a youth come to you and say they need at baptism for dead recommend, and you just give it to them? Have you ever considered not having youth interviews? What would that look like and how would that change the culture?
The former bishop/father who isn’t attending much or accepting callings sounds a lot like many of us here at NOM. Maybe he is on NOM?? That would be funny.
One of the parts that jumped out at me was the 1:1 worthiness interviews. Are these interviews really needed at all? Can’t a youth come to you and say they need at baptism for dead recommend, and you just give it to them? Have you ever considered not having youth interviews? What would that look like and how would that change the culture?
The former bishop/father who isn’t attending much or accepting callings sounds a lot like many of us here at NOM. Maybe he is on NOM?? That would be funny.
~2bizE
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Interesting feedback and glad to see things are going so well. You are providing a lot of food for thought that will be useful to other NOMers in leadership callings.
For the random plates of cookies, I think most people are just showing gratitude for your service to the ward. Being in charge of a religious congregation is near a full-time job (and is a full-time paid job in most churches), and I think people recognize the time you spend and are grateful for it. At least, that is how I see it.
Curious how you feel about seeking out lost sheep? Our Bishop likes to review the expired temple recommend list, and then have me try to set up interviews with these people. A fair number of these people don't want to talk to the Bishop, so they often just ignore my messages. I don't really like hounding people, I figure if people want a temple recommend they know who to ask. Obviously there are scriptures about going after the lost sheep, so I can't fault our Bishop for his efforts, but that doesn't mean I like it. How do you view searching after lost sheep?
For the random plates of cookies, I think most people are just showing gratitude for your service to the ward. Being in charge of a religious congregation is near a full-time job (and is a full-time paid job in most churches), and I think people recognize the time you spend and are grateful for it. At least, that is how I see it.
Curious how you feel about seeking out lost sheep? Our Bishop likes to review the expired temple recommend list, and then have me try to set up interviews with these people. A fair number of these people don't want to talk to the Bishop, so they often just ignore my messages. I don't really like hounding people, I figure if people want a temple recommend they know who to ask. Obviously there are scriptures about going after the lost sheep, so I can't fault our Bishop for his efforts, but that doesn't mean I like it. How do you view searching after lost sheep?
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
For the most part, the youth in our ward have either been through the interview process a number of times already and/or the parents are very orthodox and expect the interviews to happen as prescribed in the handbook. That said, I don't ask questions about chastity. We have had lessons on pornography and masturbation and I feel the youth could come talk to me if they feel they need to, that is enough. The majority of my time in "interviews" with youth is talking about school/hobbies/etc.2bizE wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:49 pm Loved your report. It sounds like you are finding some open minded NOMs in your own ward.
One of the parts that jumped out at me was the 1:1 worthiness interviews. Are these interviews really needed at all? Can’t a youth come to you and say they need at baptism for dead recommend, and you just give it to them? Have you ever considered not having youth interviews? What would that look like and how would that change the culture?
I personally have very little interest in seeking out lost sheep. They are grown adults and know how to find us if they want to. Our stake is REALLY pushing getting people to renew recommends since that is a statistic that has fallen off a cliff through COVID. I really do believe they are scared that tithing will take a big hit if people aren't re-upping their recommends. Based on that my exec sec has taken it on himself to reach out to people who are active but have recently lapsed recommends. I'm sure he had a discussion with out previous bishop on the matter and is just continuing that assignment.Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:15 am Curious how you feel about seeking out lost sheep? Our Bishop likes to review the expired temple recommend list, and then have me try to set up interviews with these people. A fair number of these people don't want to talk to the Bishop, so they often just ignore my messages. I don't really like hounding people, I figure if people want a temple recommend they know who to ask. Obviously there are scriptures about going after the lost sheep, so I can't fault our Bishop for his efforts, but that doesn't mean I like it. How do you view searching after lost sheep?
In some cases people want to renew and just didn't know how to go about doing it in shutdown. Those times often lead to good chats with friends. In other cases the members ignore his texts/emails, which as I said is their choice. I've got better things to do with my time than try to convince people they need a card that I don't necessarily want myself.
Well, I'm better than dirt! Ah, well... most kinds of dirt; not that fancy store-bought dirt; that stuff is loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff. -Moe Sizlack
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Love reading your status updates Bishop!
I think you’re finding your groove and hope you continue to be at peace in this calling. I often think what I would do if in the same situation.
As far as youth interviews go I tend to agree they are not necessary. If it’s an expectation at least you’re not taking them serious. There was nothing worse growing up than having to go get interviews. The guilt and shame those interviews caused was horrendous.
Keep up the great work you’re doing.
I think you’re finding your groove and hope you continue to be at peace in this calling. I often think what I would do if in the same situation.
As far as youth interviews go I tend to agree they are not necessary. If it’s an expectation at least you’re not taking them serious. There was nothing worse growing up than having to go get interviews. The guilt and shame those interviews caused was horrendous.
Keep up the great work you’re doing.
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“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg
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Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
You are doing a great job Bishop, what a much needed breath of fresh air for your ward.
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Love the report and wish that every bishop could be like you.
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Graey, your report is amazing. The Bishop's handbook should get a new addendum from your experiences. This feels more refreshing and realistic than most of the instructions from the institutional church. Too much of what I read in the handbooks looks like a team of lawyers wordsmithed the text.
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
That's only because a team of lawyers wordsmithed the textCorsair wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:14 amGraey, your report is amazing. The Bishop's handbook should get a new addendum from your experiences. This feels more refreshing and realistic than most of the instructions from the institutional church. Too much of what I read in the handbooks looks like a team of lawyers wordsmithed the text.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Duplicate post deleted.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest. -anon
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born
The belief that there is only one truth, and that oneself is in possession of it, is the root of all evil in the world. -Max Born
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Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Excellent report - great to hear from you ! You are doing so well in staying authentic to your own identity and it looks as if the ward really likes you. Very impressive ! Please keep us posted on a regular basis. - Wndr.
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Ignore the saying, "Beware of Mormons bearing plates of cookies". They are trying to say thanks for your kind and rational approach to being their bishop. If chocolate chip cookies become tiresome, you might mention that a tray of baklava would be appreciated.græy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:51 pm Thank You Cards
I have magically become someone that people talk about in family home evenings. They write thank-you cards, and randomly deliver plates of cookies to my home. I love chocolate chip cookies, so I hate to complain, but I also feel uncomfortable with the whole thing.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha
-- Moksha
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Thanks for the updates Græy, I always look forward to the next one.
3 vacation days in 3 months?! That's a travesty. Hopefully your plans to put an end to that work out. I'm sorry they are leaning on you like that.
You sound like a fantastic bishop. I think the thank you cards and cookies and your improved relationship with your DW are all the payment you will get for all your hard work, so don't feel guilty about any of it.
It's good to hear that members are coming to you about their unorthodox views for LGBTQ folks; that they should be treated like human beings. My DW is still pretty TBM, but she has said that she thinks some of the leadership is wrong about things like this because they were raised in a different time. Maybe if Bednar doesn't crush the rebellion when he has the reigns then there will be a time when the church is less wrong in 40 years .
I think you are handling your interviews with minors really well. Good job telling the kids that they are worthy.
Hang in there!
3 vacation days in 3 months?! That's a travesty. Hopefully your plans to put an end to that work out. I'm sorry they are leaning on you like that.
You sound like a fantastic bishop. I think the thank you cards and cookies and your improved relationship with your DW are all the payment you will get for all your hard work, so don't feel guilty about any of it.
It's good to hear that members are coming to you about their unorthodox views for LGBTQ folks; that they should be treated like human beings. My DW is still pretty TBM, but she has said that she thinks some of the leadership is wrong about things like this because they were raised in a different time. Maybe if Bednar doesn't crush the rebellion when he has the reigns then there will be a time when the church is less wrong in 40 years .
I think you are handling your interviews with minors really well. Good job telling the kids that they are worthy.
Hang in there!
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Just don't tell any pedophiles they are worthy, and you are in good shape. ....
Just curious, do you have the balls to actually stand against abuse if needed? I once thought bishops were judges, and would be a protection and all that... I thought wrong.
It's all fun and feel-good games until everyone in the room is raising their hands to support a pedophile in front of their victims...
Called of God?
Those interviews with kids - it's not about judging kids, it's about keeping them safe I hope? Do you have real, non-chirch resources for when you need it?
Coming from someone who lived the horror story, and is still witnessing the struggle of those kids...
Just curious, do you have the balls to actually stand against abuse if needed? I once thought bishops were judges, and would be a protection and all that... I thought wrong.
It's all fun and feel-good games until everyone in the room is raising their hands to support a pedophile in front of their victims...
Called of God?
Those interviews with kids - it's not about judging kids, it's about keeping them safe I hope? Do you have real, non-chirch resources for when you need it?
Coming from someone who lived the horror story, and is still witnessing the struggle of those kids...
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Sounds like you are doing a great job!!!!!! Keep up the good work and I pray that one day other bishops will emulate you .
Re: Three Months Down. 57 To Go.
Sorry for being harsh but... if some person pretends to be a doctor when they aren't really a doctor ... perhaps it's 500 years ago and those who claim to be doctors are doing more harm than good, and someone thinks they can do better by pretending ... we're all just doing the best we can, but pretending, false expectations, hiding the truth? a nasty tangled web. When accusations and court cases start up ...
Perhaps everyone will win the jackpot and avoid it all but... 25% of women report being assaulted, and around 5% of men are pedophiles so... chances are...
Perhaps everyone will win the jackpot and avoid it all but... 25% of women report being assaulted, and around 5% of men are pedophiles so... chances are...
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson