Why are we not discussing the Brad Wilcox fireside?

[wtfluff]

My guess is that he find himself receiving a mission call a la Randy Bott.

The Bott incident was the first thing I thought of when I started seeing the posts about a BYU employee/GA spewing stupidity. Didn't they already take care of that guy?

Turns out there are plenty of other bigots ready to slip into any empty positions and "accidentally" cluelessly speak the bigotry that they harbor.

[moksha]

His loving and defending wife Debi needs to realize that no matter how loving and well-intentioned the orifice is, the excrement that is extruded does not belong on the chapel rug. No wonder Brad Wilcox apologized, yet that justification for blacks not receiving the priesthood until 1978 was the same one he used in Georgia two years earlier (and most likely in other talks as well). Good thing LDS talks can make it to TikTok and other social media so they can be examined and then ejected to Outer Darkness before they can be repeated time and time again.

Exposure to social media can help make the world safe from LDS rhetoric.

[stealthbishop]

Story about a young lady getting married civilly:
It's not fair to say that he made this story up, but he made this story up. The story hit far too many Mormon teaching bullet points for me to think that the story happened in real life. Why not present a hypothetical story as hypothetical?

Okay this was soooo made up. He said the lady was from his work. Um... doesn't he work for BYU? And if by some chance he did have a non-member friend at BYU, how would she know so little about mormonism that Brad would need to educate her?

He was supposedly close enough to her to be invited to her wedding. That probably means they are friends on social media too. I bet someone could debunk his story be going though his friends list. I doubt he has many non-member co-worker friends. (Do your thing GenZ)

The story takes place when he worked at the University of Wyoming while he was getting his Ph.D. But my wife also immediately said she believed that this story was completely made up.

[stealthbishop]

My guess is that he find himself receiving a mission call a la Randy Bott.

The Bott incident was the first thing I thought of when I started seeing the posts about a BYU employee/GA spewing stupidity. Didn't they already take care of that guy?

Turns out there are plenty of other bigots ready to slip into any empty positions and "accidentally" cluelessly speak the bigotry that they harbor.

Same.

[stealthbishop]

This is some rescue!

Me thinks Brad and Debi are not doing the LDS Church any favors here and more youth are going to look at this insanity as more evidence that their religion has some really whacked out patterns and concepts. More will leave as a result of this not less. This rescue attempt completely backfired.

I think Debi would do well to listen to Brad's friends, the Sistas in Zion, who seriously took him to task yesterday and completely scorched him for his crazy-ass racism. Is Debi going to argue with Black LDS friends of Brad's that racism didn't ooze from his message? Just because you have a Black friend (or co-worker, or child, or spouse) does not lead to you automatically being an anti-racist. Case in point: Brad Wilcox.

[Red Ryder]

I hope somebody in PR starts to advise Debi Wilcox to turn off her social media. It’s just bad optics to argue using even more derogatory language. Clueless

The other videos of him saying the same thing word for word make me believe he’s the hired hit man to connect with the youth. And that’s his strategy?

This is the guy the Q15 want out there resolving fundamental problems to the foundations of the faith?

How about this idea…

President Nelson, you know the actual Prophet?

He should address the church in a world wide forum (hint GC) and state that on the surface there are many problems with the church and that over time the narrative has focused to our relationship with JESUS CHRIST!!!

Make the church what it should be. The church of JESUS CHRIST and all things going forward will strengthen that relationship.

No more prophet worship
No more Joseph Smith worship.
No more obedience to the prophets worship.

Focus on a Christ centered life of family, friends, and healthy attitudes.

Stop making people sick with your toxic bullshit and then trying to sell them the cure.

Wilcox is just peddling the toxicity and advertising the cure.

[stealthbishop]

Debi is clearly in a spiral and just making things worse. I get it. What they both don't realize is that they continue to show the trauma and toxicity of our tradition and they're just digging a deeper hole. They both need to take a break. Go take a vacation. Do the work. Listen to the feedback. Hell, listen to the feedback that his Black LDS friends are giving him. Do the work. Stop talking.

[wtfluff]

I hope somebody in PR starts to advise Debi Wilcox to turn off her social media.

Debi is clearly in a spiral and just making things worse.

"Poor" Debi is one HUGE reason why I don't think her husband will ever get a big red (fluffy?) clown chair with the rest of the Q15 bigots. Q15 wives aren't supposed to have a voice. They just sit next to their husband's meekly and quietly. If they say anything, it's what some dude in the hierarchy told them to say, or simply sing the praises of the men-folk and how to better follow them. Debi's inability to control her fingers, and her privilege spewing forth from her brain via her fingers has colored WAY outside the lines of a GA wife.

[stealthbishop]

I hope somebody in PR starts to advise Debi Wilcox to turn off her social media.

Debi is clearly in a spiral and just making things worse.

"Poor" Debi is one HUGE reason why I don't think her husband will ever get a big red (fluffy?) clown chair with the rest of the Q15 bigots. Q15 wives aren't supposed to have a voice. They just sit next to their husband's meekly and quietly. If they say anything, it's what some dude in the hierarchy told them to say, or simply sing the praises of the men-folk and how to better follow them. Debi's inability to control her fingers, and her privilege spewing forth from her brain via her fingers has colored WAY outside the lines of a GA wife.

But. . .but . . . LDS Women (especially GA wives) DO have influence!!!!

Great point though. I think they have both lost their shot at the top.

[AllieOop]

…eating popcorn…..this is an amazing $hit show to watch….did the question of why white people didn’t get priesthood for one thousand eight hundred twenty nine years ever get answered? I mean….that’s the question we should be asking…shoving more popcorn in my mouth….

Well, Wilcox definitely showed a lack of knowledge regarding church history on this topic. Joseph Smith gave black men the Priesthood, so it wasn't a wait until 1978, LOL.

Also, there is a discussion about his talk over on MD&D and apparently this is at least the 3rd time Wilcox has given this same talk (videos are surfacing). It'll be interesting to see how the leaders handle this.

[mufflerman]

Is he too young for Emeritus status?

[blazerb]

…eating popcorn…..this is an amazing $hit show to watch….did the question of why white people didn’t get priesthood for one thousand eight hundred twenty nine years ever get answered? I mean….that’s the question we should be asking…shoving more popcorn in my mouth….

Well, Wilcox definitely showed a lack of knowledge regarding church history on this topic. Joseph Smith gave black men the Priesthood, so it wasn't a wait until 1978, LOL.

Also, there is a discussion about his talk over on MD&D and apparently this is at least the 3rd time Wilcox has given this same talk (videos are surfacing). It'll be interesting to see how the leaders handle this.

These types of things have happened before. The Q15's advisors tell them to just wait it out. Eventually the faithful forget that it ever happened.

I loved my church when I was a kid. I was not aware of how toxic it could be. I wish the church could change, but I don't hold out much hope anymore. There are too many at the highest levels who believe that what Wilcox said is the truth. Those at the highest levels keep calling others who agree with them. Whatever progress occurs will be very slow, if I had to guess.

[Hagoth]

It'll be interesting to see how the leaders handle this.

Prediction: a newsroom release that gushes about how much the church loves and embraces all of God's children. No specific public criticism or censure of Wilcox. Wilcox quietly goes away to a special calling. Debi falls silent. There's another bump under the rug of Mormonism that keeps getting stepped over.

The really wonderful outcome would be if the Wilcoxes took this opportunity to become truly humble and do a thorough reevaluation of their Mormon experience (as in maturely and systematically study the history, doctrine and criticism from all points of view), and then find a way to publicly undo the damage they have done in the name of the church. But I expect silence.

[AllieOop]

These types of things have happened before. The Q15's advisors tell them to just wait it out. Eventually the faithful forget that it ever happened.

Yes, no statement from the leaders....yet. They will maybe just allow others to speak for them.

Here's the one from BYU (they posted a statement on Feb. 8 on Twitter about the incident):

We are deeply concerned with the words recently used by Dr. Brad Wilcox. We appreciate his sincere apology & believe he is committed to learn from this experience. BYU remains committed to upholding President Nelson’s charge to root out racism in our institutions.

And this from the BYU Black Student Union president:
https://kutv.com/news/local/president-b ... -3rd-video

I don’t think he needs to resign, I don’t think he needs to be fired or anything like that. I just think he needs to be aware that his words have consequences and that he needs to focus more using the scriptures in the things that he says, as opposed to just expressing his opinions.

There’s been a lot of, I guess you could say, outrage and frustration, and also a little bit of satisfaction because this is something that’s been going on for a long time, This is not the first time that he’s made those remarks, but it is the first time there’s been some of accountability for it.

[AllieOop]

It'll be interesting to see how the leaders handle this.

Prediction: a newsroom release that gushes about how much the church loves and embraces all of God's children. No specific public criticism or censure of Wilcox. Wilcox quietly goes away to a special calling. Debi falls silent. There's another bump under the rug of Mormonism that keeps getting stepped over.

The really wonderful outcome would be if the Wilcoxes took this opportunity to become truly humble and do a thorough reevaluation of their Mormon experience (as in maturely and systematically study the history, doctrine and criticism from all points of view), and then find a way to publicly undo the damage they have done in the name of the church. But I expect silence.

Well, Wilcox will most likely never speak in General Conference again at least (he spoke at a session in October, 2021).

I used to go hear him speak many years ago at BYU Education Week (I'd take my teenagers and he was a popular youth speaker there). Even as an active member, I'd roll my eyes at many of the stories and antics he'd go through in an effort to entertain the youth. Something just hit me wrong even when he was much younger.

I've watched as he climbed the ladder and I'm sure he & his wife were looking at climbing higher. Well, that's probably off the table now. It'll be good for them, IMO, to be humbled a bit.....but it's got to be very painful for this ending up being so public. Also, this may be what he's remembered for just like the Bott incident.

[Yobispo]

Well, Wilcox will most likely never speak in General Conference again at least (he spoke at a session in October, 2021).

Elder Ponderize gave his talk in 2015, and he spokse again 3 years later at GC. Granted, Brad's blunder is far worse, but the church does like to show it is in charge.

[AllieOop]

Well, Wilcox will most likely never speak in General Conference again at least (he spoke at a session in October, 2021).

Elder Ponderize gave his talk in 2015, and he spokse again 3 years later at GC. Granted, Brad's blunder is far worse, but the church does like to show it is in charge.

Yes, true!! I'd forgotten about him

[Red Ryder]

Well, Wilcox definitely showed a lack of knowledge regarding church history on this topic. Joseph Smith gave black men the Priesthood, so it wasn't a wait until 1978, LOL.

Also, there is a discussion about his talk over on MD&D and apparently this is at least the 3rd time Wilcox has given this same talk (videos are surfacing). It'll be interesting to see how the leaders handle this.

I hadn’t thought of the Elijah Abel aspect of this.

Just goes to show the church is continuing to dodge and hide the fact the priesthood ban wasn’t “from God”, but rather from the racist Brigham Young.

Perhaps its time to throw Brother Brigham under the bus, apologize for past racism and come out and say the priesthood ban was wrong.

Then rename BYU to:
Hinckley University - Heterosexual (HUH?)
which wouldn’t be a shift from the (WHY?) and clearly outline their beliefs of one man one woman. It would cut the old polygamy anchor and reinforce their stance on same sex marriage with one simple policy change!

There’s probably plenty of space on Y mountain to spell out Heterosexual in full, right?

[moksha]

[alas]

What Mrs W doesn’t understand is that people can actually feel love for blacks, women, members of other churches, and still feel superior to them. The biggest thing that struck me about this talk is how condescending it was. Yes, I think he loves his wife, but I bet that he does not feel that she is equal to him. He sounds like a lot of men who think of women as “other”. He has the word “equal” he might use as in apples are equal to oranges, meaning both have value and good nutrition and are yummy. But they are not the same. Most (probably my generation and white) men think of women as “equal” in this sense as that both have value, are necessary, but are different. They don’t quite think of women as just as valuable, capable, and human as men. So, they were just fine with things like women can’t have a bank account in their own name, or be on juries, or have the right to make their own decisions about having children or not having children. But men now, of course they can do all those things without permission from their wives. But women STILL face an argument with their doctor if they want their tubes tied that they need to get their husband’s permission, but men have no trouble getting their doctor to snip them without their wife even knowing. My daughter in a lesbian relationship, and her doctor refuses to do the hysterectomy she needs because she “might want children” someday. Um, no. She’s in her 40s My other daughter who has the very same issue and her doctor tells her the same thing, she only has two children and might want more, but her pregnancies were so dangerous that the OB told her that a third would kill her, but she has no right to make the decision to get the hysterectomy. It isn’t that these doctors don’t care about their patients, it is that they think in terms of women as different than men to the point that they just can’t empathize and relate or understand women’s needs or desires.

And yes, saying that other religions are just playing church, that says he really thinks his religion is not just better, but that theirs is so bad as to be fake.

So everything about this talk was looking down on everybody else from his privileged position as a white male as his huge superiority complex about “we have the only true church.” The man is an arrogant a** hat. Yuck. Leave this church and you will lose everything, like your arrogance.