Who wants a Christian "Sharia" society?

[deacon blues]

I am not an expert on fundamentalist Islam, but from what I can see their general goal is to promote Sharia- fundamental Islamic law- a society governed by fundamentalist religion, and they hope it covers the whole world.
In my view, much of the USA Evangelical Christianity, 21st century TBM Mormonism, and Joseph Smith/Brigham Young period Mormonism, are after a Christian version of the same thing. This is in opposition to the Jesus who said "my kingdom is not of this world."

I was listening to a Tucker Carlson talk yesterday and he was reassuring an audience that Don Trump's goal is to promote a 1980's Reagan-style USA- nothing very radical. Kind of a "don't worry, folks" talk. I even think he might be right: maybe, maybe not.

What concerns me is the MAGA crowd, especially the fundamentalist, often-home schooling, Christian nationalist people who see Trump as the key to establishing a "Christian-Nationalist" government. These people would promote their view of America, which I think would include: more censorship, voting laws that would favor their stance, breaking down the separation of Church and state, etc. Late 19th and early 20th century USA had some elements of this such as prohibition and "Blue laws," and yes- even Jim Crow laws. I think some of them want that. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

Trump won't live forever, but Christian Nationalism wants to get in bed with him, and the children of that union make me shudder.

[moksha]

Trump won't live forever, but Christian Nationalism wants to get in bed with him, and the children of that union make me shudder.

"Tricksie Biden stole your precious? Send out your Nazgul!"

[Hagoth]

The biggest problem with a Christian America of the kind Mike Johnson dreams about is that it would eventually lead to the doom of most Christian religious freedoms. You would end up with a political governing body that would decide what constitutes "Christian" and what does not. They would claim it all comes from the Bible, just as Evangelicals misuse the Bible now to give authority to anything they want. One-by-one just about every Christian institution would be revealed to be on the wrong side of the fence on some topic and would find themselves, legally if not literally, up against the wall smoking smoking their last cigarette. Mormons, for instance, would be shocked to find themselves pretty much at odds with the official Christian institution, just as they were in John Taylor's day. They would be forced to either join the Empire or have all of their toys taken away. Spoiler: they would join.

Fortunately, I think Americans are too smart and stubborn to fall for it.

[Mayan_Elephant]

What concerns me is the MAGA crowd, especially the fundamentalist, often-home schooling, Christian nationalist people who see Trump as the key to establishing a "Christian-Nationalist" government. These people would promote their view of America, which I think would include: more censorship, voting laws that would favor their stance, breaking down the separation of Church and state, etc. Late 19th and early 20th century USA had some elements of this such as prohibition and "Blue laws," and yes- even Jim Crow laws. I think some of them want that.

What person has said they want these things? Who said they want Jim Crow laws?

This all sounds like booglywoogly scarylarry yabajaba googlyboogly made up shit to me. Or, more accurately, imaginary plans that you imagine someone else is imagining.

The party that censors and wants more censorship is not MAGA. The voting law changes in most states do not favor MAGA or Americans. The religious loyalty of the left is not less than an Amish farmer. The accusations and feelings about these MAGA boogeymen are all just gaslighting testimonies.

Dirty Bird is exactly right. What is happening now is what happened before. Hello! Is anybody home?

[deacon blues]

What a silly post- pretend words and profanity.
I'm reminded of when Joseph said, "“What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers.” —Joseph Smith (History of the Church, May 26, 1844, p. 441).
All you would have to do is google Christian Nationalism and White Supremacy, but you probably already knew that.
Or you could start here: https://religionnews.com/2023/01/06/a-c ... -taxonomy/
Also, please note: I'm not saying it will happen, I said "some of them want that.
I could give you a list of books to read, if you're comfortable with that.

[Mayan_Elephant]

What a silly post- pretend words and profanity.
I'm reminded of when Joseph said, "“What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers.” —Joseph Smith (History of the Church, May 26, 1844, p. 441).
All you would have to do is google Christian Nationalism and White Supremacy, but you probably already knew that.
Or you could start here: https://religionnews.com/2023/01/06/a-c ... -taxonomy/
Also, please note: I'm not saying it will happen, I said "some of them want that.
I could give you a list of books to read, if you're comfortable with that.

So who wants Jim Crow laws?

[deacon blues]

I'm reminded of the movie Cool Hand Luke (1967) - The Captain's speech " What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. . . well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

Let me try to communicate: Jim Crow laws= segregation. OK?

Segregationists= White Supremacists, Aryan Nations(Northern Idaho), KKK, Nazi's, maybe even most Mormon Fundamentalists. Still, OK?

[Angel]

I'm reminded of the movie Cool Hand Luke (1967) - The Captain's speech " What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. . . well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

Let me try to communicate: Jim Crow laws= segregation. OK?

Segregationists= White Supremacists, Aryan Nations(Northern Idaho), KKK, Nazi's, maybe even most Mormon Fundamentalists. Still, OK?

Yup.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnew ... rcna136967

Trump 2024 flags flew alongside Christian flags as a throng of (white rscist) people...

[Mayan_Elephant]

I'm reminded of the movie Cool Hand Luke (1967) - The Captain's speech " What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. . . well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

Let me try to communicate: Jim Crow laws= segregation. OK?

Segregationists= White Supremacists, Aryan Nations(Northern Idaho), KKK, Nazi's, maybe even most Mormon Fundamentalists. Still, OK?

Dont be a chicken. Name names. Who wants Jim Crow laws?

My guess is these assclowns mailing in ballots want to jack up the laws. See how that works?

[Mayan_Elephant]

I'm reminded of the movie Cool Hand Luke (1967) - The Captain's speech " What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. . . well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

Let me try to communicate: Jim Crow laws= segregation. OK?

Segregationists= White Supremacists, Aryan Nations(Northern Idaho), KKK, Nazi's, maybe even most Mormon Fundamentalists. Still, OK?

Yup.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnew ... rcna136967

Trump 2024 flags flew alongside Christian flags as a throng of (white rscist) people...

Can you please give us the exact law that is wanted and tell us who wants that law?

My guess is that you can’t but that there are some really really really bad people that want some really really really bad things and that you and your pals are way way way way better than those people. If I am wrong, and you have the names and the Jim Crow law to be reinstated , that would be helpful.

[deacon blues]

Thanks for asking nicely. White Supremacists include: David Lane, Richard Spencer, Bryan Betancur, Wade Page, Patrick Wood Crusius, and many, many others are listed on line. These type of people are know for wearing masks, or hiding their identity in other ways, so there may be many, many more flying under the radar. How many names do you want?
I googled white supremacist groups and got a list that would fill several pages.


As for laws, I stated there were such things as blue laws and Jim Crow laws in the early 20th century. I said I believe some people still want segregation. I didn't say anyone was writing such laws, but the way I worded my post might have made you think I said that. Sorry, that wasn't my intention.

As you probably know, there are many books written on the topic of Christian Nationalism, pro and con. I don't see any point in listing them all.

I didn't say every MAGA person is a Christian Nationalist or a white supremacist. It wasn't my intention to imply that. Again, sorry if you got that idea.

I do think Joseph Smith wanted a segregated society, at least as far a marriage goes. So that would explain why most Mormon fundamentalists want segregation.

Living in Utah, I have lots of friends and family that identify as MAGA people. We agree on some things, but not on Trump.

Speaking of communication, you wrote this: "My guess is these assclowns mailing in ballots want to jack up the laws. See how that works?"

I'm don't understand what you're saying. Maybe it's because I'm almost 70. Could you make that sentence plainer for me please?

[deacon blues]

Stephen Wolfe wrote a book that is apparently in favor of Christian Nationalism.
The Case for Christian Nationalism Paperback – November 1, 2022
by Stephen Wolfe (Author)
I probably won't read it.
Below is a summary from a 5 star review of this book. Again, this guy sincerely wants segregation, but he won't called for "Jim Crow laws" because that phrase is too triggering.

Here’s a summary of those tricky premises no one wants to engage with:
1. Societal organization existed before the Fall, so it’s natural and good.
2. The basis of society is that every person loves the people close to them, and that’s natural and good, too.
3. Therefore, a society composed of people working for each other’s earthly and heavenly good is also natural and good.
That’s it. That’s Christian nationalism.

I get the feeling I'm reading more about this than you, Mayan Elephant. That's not intended as a put down. It's easy to get obsessed with this stuff.

[Mayan_Elephant]

Speaking of communication, you wrote this: "My guess is these assclowns mailing in ballots want to jack up the laws. See how that works?"

I'm don't understand what you're saying. Maybe it's because I'm almost 70. Could you make that sentence plainer for me please?

Sure thing.

I made a generalized statement about a group of people that does something I don’t do and I implied that their intent was nefarious. It is simple to do. It is as easy to suggest that someone who votes by mail wants to change the laws as it is to suggest that someone who doesn’t vote for the Democrat candidate wants to change the laws.

Supporting those claims requires more effort.

[Mayan_Elephant]

Stephen Wolfe wrote a book that is apparently in favor of Christian Nationalism.
The Case for Christian Nationalism Paperback – November 1, 2022
by Stephen Wolfe (Author)
I probably won't read it.
Below is a summary from a 5 star review of this book. Again, this guy sincerely wants segregation, but he won't called for "Jim Crow laws" because that phrase is too triggering.

Here’s a summary of those tricky premises no one wants to engage with:
1. Societal organization existed before the Fall, so it’s natural and good.
2. The basis of society is that every person loves the people close to them, and that’s natural and good, too.
3. Therefore, a society composed of people working for each other’s earthly and heavenly good is also natural and good.
That’s it. That’s Christian nationalism.

I get the feeling I'm reading more about this than you, Mayan Elephant. That's not intended as a put down. It's easy to get obsessed with this stuff.

I agree that Jim Crow is triggering. Which is why you and others accuse people of wanting Jim Crow laws without actually pointing to a law that is specifically wanted.

Let me be more specific.

Person says: “that bad man wants Jim Crow laws!”

The point of saying that, (above), is to trigger the hell out of the conversation.

As for the racism - racism sucks. It sucks bad. And if some assholes want to broadcast their racism, to hell with those folks. Accusing people of being racist, when they are not actually racist, is every bit as shitty. Being racist and accusing folks of racism is bad.


Then there is the feigned holier than thou awful racism that is somehow acceptable - but nasty AF. For example, “it is racist to expect a black person to get an ID and show an ID to vote”. Uh……. Nope. But it is racist and disgusting to say and believe and promote such heinous condescending racism for one’s ideological and political flatulence.

[moksha]

For example, “It is racist to expect a black person to get an ID and show an ID to vote”. Uh……. Nope.

So you are against mail-in voting because it makes it harder to discourage black people from voting?

[Mayan_Elephant]

For example, “It is racist to expect a black person to get an ID and show an ID to vote”. Uh……. Nope.

So you are against mail-in voting because it makes it harder to discourage black people from voting?

No, dummy. That is not what I said. That is not what I think. Were you making another joke? If so, it was not funny. Were you just making a stupid comment by asking a stupid question? If so, you were successful.

Are you one of those people that flatter yourself and think you are so privileged to know how to drive a car and get an ID while also racistly believing that black people are too stupid to do the same? Black people are neither stupid nor incompetent. They don't need your racist condescension like you need to be a condescending racist.

[deacon blues]

Stephen Wolfe wrote a book that is apparently in favor of Christian Nationalism.
The Case for Christian Nationalism Paperback – November 1, 2022
by Stephen Wolfe (Author)
I probably won't read it.
Below is a summary from a 5 star review of this book. Again, this guy sincerely wants segregation, but he won't called for "Jim Crow laws" because that phrase is too triggering.

Here’s a summary of those tricky premises no one wants to engage with:
1. Societal organization existed before the Fall, so it’s natural and good.
2. The basis of society is that every person loves the people close to them, and that’s natural and good, too.
3. Therefore, a society composed of people working for each other’s earthly and heavenly good is also natural and good.
That’s it. That’s Christian nationalism.

I get the feeling I'm reading more about this than you, Mayan Elephant. That's not intended as a put down. It's easy to get obsessed with this stuff.

I agree that Jim Crow is triggering. Which is why you and others accuse people of wanting Jim Crow laws without actually pointing to a law that is specifically wanted.

Let me be more specific.

Person says: “that bad man wants Jim Crow laws!”

The point of saying that, (above), is to trigger the hell out of the conversation.

As for the racism - racism sucks. It sucks bad. And if some assholes want to broadcast their racism, to hell with those folks. Accusing people of being racist, when they are not actually racist, is every bit as shitty. Being racist and accusing folks of racism is bad.


Then there is the feigned holier than thou awful racism that is somehow acceptable - but nasty AF. For example, “it is racist to expect a black person to get an ID and show an ID to vote”. Uh……. Nope. But it is racist and disgusting to say and believe and promote such heinous condescending racism for one’s ideological and political flatulence.

I think the reason you focused on three words: J*% C#@! Laws, and ignore the rest of my post is because you are trying to trigger me and/or others.
You ignore the point I made:J*& C#*^ L*^#S are about segregation.

I agree that racism sucks. Most people agree. So people like Stephen Wolfe soften their stance by saying that people are happier or better off when they are 'with their own kind.' He's talking about segregation, but he's trying to convince others, especially Christian Nationalists, that it is god's will, so he chooses his words very carefully, and avoids triggers.

I also know that people accuse others of things as a way to deflect criticism. Tu quoque is a type of ad hominem argument in which an accused person turns an allegation back on his or her accuser, thus creating a logical fallacy.

It's possible that neither you or moksha are racist. You just have different views about solutions. I've got a hunch that you're going to disagree with me, but that's OK. Just don't make me or others a 'straw man.'

[deacon blues]

I'm reminded of the movie Cool Hand Luke (1967) - The Captain's speech " What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. . . well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

Let me try to communicate: Jim Crow laws= segregation. OK?

Segregationists= White Supremacists, Aryan Nations(Northern Idaho), KKK, Nazi's, maybe even most Mormon Fundamentalists. Still, OK?

Does anyone disagree?

[Mayan_Elephant]

I'm reminded of the movie Cool Hand Luke (1967) - The Captain's speech " What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it. . . well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

Let me try to communicate: Jim Crow laws= segregation. OK?

Segregationists= White Supremacists, Aryan Nations(Northern Idaho), KKK, Nazi's, maybe even most Mormon Fundamentalists. Still, OK?

Does anyone disagree?

Give me an example of a Jim Crow law, including the date that it was made a law and the date it was repealed.

Your list of segregationists certainly has applications. Though, it is not a comprehensive list. Democrats segregate. My kids' school segregated regularly (it was in San Francisco and had no affiliation with the listed groups you provided). There are MANY groups that set someone or something apart from others. In fact, there are massive campaigns to make segregation an active part of hiring/firing/tenure and also a part of admissions. If you want to list segregation, as opposed to just white racist bullshit, then do so. But first, explain how you are using the word segregation or act of segregating. So far, you don't seem to be using the universal application or definition.

For the record - racism is bad. Racism sucks. I am not excusing racism, I am extremely critical of racism and I reject it in all forms, including condescension and belittling.

[Mayan_Elephant]

He's talking about segregation, but he's trying to convince others, especially Christian Nationalists, that it is god's will, so he chooses his words very carefully, and avoids triggers.

You are choosing your words carefully, correct? And you are using/avoiding triggers, correct? You even used symbols to exclaim your use/not use of a triggering word, correct?

Rather than get into whether or not the intent is to trigger or not trigger, let's just discuss the content.

I do not think you have adequately defined or explained your use of the term "Christian Nationalists." Frankly, my reading of your post makes me think that you dislike or judge Christians and you dislike or judge Nationalists. It seems from your writing that you lack patience for Christians and for Nationalists. I can't help but wonder if this is actually true or just the way you are presenting the argument. Further, you seem to think that Christians and Nationalists and Christian Nationalists do not favor the political propaganda and campaigns that you favor. So, in that light, let me ask this simple question.

Why do you prefer Globalism over Nationalism?

I believe that not all Christians are racist. Not all Nationalists are evil. Not all Globalists are kindhearted or do-gooders. Globalists also have racist POS's among them. Racism is not unique to Christians. Racism is bad - very bad. Trying to narrow the definition of racism to excuse a larger and god-awful form of racism is still racism.