Families CAN be together forever also means they CAN'T

[Hagoth]

The church teaches, almost as its central theme, that families can be together forever. At the same time, it sets such a high standard of expectations that it seems very unlikely that many members would meet the requirements for the Celestial Kingdom. For a family to be together forever, every member must be CK worthy. In other words, families also CAN'T be together forever.

Think about the LDS families you know. In how many of them is every member active in the church, fully temple "worthy," and living every expectation of the church at a Celestial level? What percentage would you give? For my ward I'd say that's about 10% of the families I know, not including the perfect-on the-outside people who know their little secrets disqualify them from the CK. That's just based on the fact that most of these families have at least one kid who is inactive or apostate.

So, can ANY families really be together forever by the church's own standards?

And I won't even go down the rabbit hole of who is in who's family after death.

[Linked]

Preach Hagoth. This perspective is difficult to come to from the inside though. It seems so positive, that God made it so we can be together! The assumption here is that families would be scattered apart by Satan or nature without God's kind plan. But it's God's plan, not Satan's, and it includes separating families. I rewrote the Families Can Be Together Forever song a while back to focus on the separation part.

You have a family here on earth,
They are so good, I see.
Wouldn't you like to spend your life with them
Thru all eternity?
But,
Families can be separated forever
Thru Heavenly Father's plan.
If you don't do what I say
Each and every day
Then the Lord will take away your fam
The Lord will take away your fam

[Ghost]

It's interesting to talk to people in other religious traditions about this, too. At least in Mormonism you can visit lower kingdoms and there are rumors that you just might be able to progress from one kingdom to another after death. (But don't talk about that or people won't try hard enough here. And don't tell Bruce R. McConkie.)

I've talked with people in other traditions that included a literal hell who said that God will remove the memory of lost family members (those who are burning for eternity) so that heaven can actually be heaven (see that one scripture about there being no more tears). And some Christians see heaven as being absorbed into God and no longer existing as a separate personality at all. Odd thing to look forward to, in my opinion.

[Hagoth]

They set up this empty seat at the table scenario as the worst thing that could happen to you and then do everything they can to make sure it happens. And then pile guilt and shame on you for allowing it to happen to your family.

But it sure keeps you eating our of their hand, doesn't it?

I cringe when I hear an LDS speaker, especially a GA, say the LDS church is the only church that believes families can be together in the eternities. Apparently they have never spoken to anyone of any other religion. Pretty much everyone I have ever met, who believes we will keep our individual personalities after death, also believes they will be with their loved ones in the hereafter. The LDS church is the only one that pretty much guarantees that won't be the case because it has so many disqualifying technicalities. Most families will have an empty seat at the table because one of their kids drank green tea, or was gay, or couldn't believe in wooden submarines and magic spectacles, or had a human attitude toward sex, or didn't log enough hours of excruciating boredom in the pews, or didn't give enough money to a megabillion dollar corporation.

[Hagoth]

It just occurred to me that the sad reality, according to Mormon beliefs, is that LDS families might be the only ones that CAN'T be together forever. Everyone who died without learning the LDS gospel is given a second chance via temple work. Those who were raised in the church don't get a second chance. So next time you're doing sealings in the temple (assuming you believe in the magic), be aware of the fact that you are making happen for other peoples' families what God will not grant you for your family.

[alas]

Preach Hagoth. This perspective is difficult to come to from the inside though. It seems so positive, that God made it so we can be together! The assumption here is that families would be scattered apart by Satan or nature without God's kind plan. But it's God's plan, not Satan's, and it includes separating families. I rewrote the Families Can Be Together Forever song a while back to focus on the separation part.

You have a family here on earth,
They are so good, I see.
Wouldn't you like to spend your life with them
Thru all eternity?
But,
Families can be separated forever
Thru Heavenly Father's plan.
If you don't do what I say
Each and every day
Then the Lord will take away your fam
The Lord will take away your fam

This version is so much more honest than the primary version. The reality is that the church is like a mob boss, “nice family you got there. It’d be a shame if anything happened to it.” So you pay the mob boss 10% of everything to keep your family from being taken away. Yup, extortion.

[Hagoth]

This version is so much more honest than the primary version. The reality is that the church is like a mob boss, “nice family you got there. It’d be a shame if anything happened to it.” So you pay the mob boss 10% of everything to keep your family from being taken away. Yup, extortion.

Yeah, but it is still impossible to meet their demands. No one, no matter how desperately they try, can exercise absolute control over the lives of their children and their children's children, who also must pay the mob boss for their entire lives to buy the promised protection. So, chances are almost certain that the mob (church) will still deliver on their threat of empty seats at the table, no matter how perfectly you comply with their demands. I guess a real world mob extortion racket is actually more moral than the church because the mob is actually capable of guaranteeing that you won't get your legs broken as long as you pay up. The church is just lip service. As a certain brother of Jesus once said, "you can buy anything in this world with empty promises."

[moksha]

So next time you're doing sealings in the temple (assuming you believe in the magic), be aware that you are making happen for other peoples' families what God will not grant you for your family.

Or we could let go of all these made-up ideas and seek happiness for everyone we know in the here and now.

[Hagoth]

Or we could let go of all these made-up ideas and seek happiness for everyone we know in the here and now.

Or the Prophet could make up a new made-up idea and say, "by the power vested in me, your families WILL be together forever, and there is no power in heaven or earth that can tear them asunder."

But where's the profit in that?

[jfro18]

This is one of the teachings that drives me nuts from the outside looking in because once you think of the inverse it really makes God seem like a monster.

But while you're in there you will justify it however you want. I remember asking my wife what she thought about knowing I would not be with her for eternity and should would be, as D&C 132 plainly states, 'given to another.'

And you know the response before I even type it, because it's the response we always get when things just do not make sense and often point to this all being made up - 'it will all work out in the end.'

[Linked]

Yeah, but it is still impossible to meet their demands. No one, no matter how desperately they try, can exercise absolute control over the lives of their children and their children's children, who also must pay the mob boss for their entire lives to buy the promised protection. So, chances are almost certain that the mob (church) will still deliver on their threat of empty seats at the table, no matter how perfectly you comply with their demands.

This is a good point, there's no way to win together, only with a portion of your family. So might as well start forgetting about the less faithful now.

But accepting that we will lose some isn't going to get people to pay tithing, so believers must focus on the idea that it's possible for families to be together because God loves us.

[moksha]

But accepting that we will lose some isn't going to get people to pay tithing, so believers must focus on the idea that it's possible for families to be together because God loves us.

Or we could go along with the LDS idea of every family member paying them 10% of their income for life and obeying everything Church leaders tell them with the supposed promise they will all be together. Scouts honor.

[wtfluff]

So if I understand you folks correctly, I should get a few of these printed up and nicely framed, and have some brilliant insider sneak them into the homes of the Quorum of Octogenarian Stooges and hang them on the wall?



Do you think any of them would "notice" ?