MacKay - Seer Stones Fair Podcast

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RubinHighlander
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MacKay - Seer Stones Fair Podcast

Post by RubinHighlander »

http://blog.fairmormon.org/2016/11/16/j ... el-mackay/

I think MacKay uses lots of big words and concepts that would elude the average TBM. He actually reveals a lot of historical facts, but he also coats it with the apologist's paint brush with statements like "These things have always been in the publications." This is the common apologist method of putting the burden on the member: that they have no real excuse for not knowing about these things. A couple of Ensign articles in the 70s does not an informed membership make!

Another purpose of his book is to answer "How does this material culture actually create a theology in Mormonism?" Perhaps he's suggesting that our religious theology is an evolution of ideas and the artifacts upon which we place superstitious beliefs? Our Mormon progenitors participated in transformative acts that gave relative functionality and importance to things like stones; that does make sense to me as long as you take out the literal deity parts.

The big question of the day seems to be about the mysterious breastplate. So far we know it fits under a handkerchief, but was never used for anything. Guess that's one that failed to have enough transformatives acts to bring it into theological importance.

It seems MacKay lays out the events and usage of the stones and their importance as a perfectly logical part of the restoration. Joseph starting out his mission with local cultural artifacts and a set of beliefs in the super natural, upon which God can then place further light and knowledge. Again the apologist play: You see, it's just another way God works with what he has available. You can weave whatever you damn well please into your narrative and make it work; even angles with swords telling you to be a pedophile.
"If we are to understand seer stones in the material culture of Mormonism, we are going to have to give answers that are theological. We are going to have to take it more serious that just describing what's in the historical documents. We are going to have to theologize and figure out what this really means rather than what someone was describing it to be."
Well now...don't forget to Ponderize the crap out of it while you are at it!

If this is what it's going to take in order for an LDS scholar, let alone a TBM, to grapple with the true purpose and use seer stones...that's more than a summer Olympics worth of mental gymnastics IMO. And where are the Mormon prophets, seers and regulators in all of this theologizing? I guess they will just wait for the next briefing from one of their research cronies to give them the slide show presentation, then they can all nod and agree on the next policy change. Don't expect any answers from the pulpit any time soon.

At the end of the day, listing to guys like this trying to explain all the craziness of how the restoration really played out, with sticks and stones and non-existent bones...I see very clearly why our past leaders scrubbed the narrative and canonized one first vision account; because they could not make sense of it either!

Seems like this guy is doing well, selling his books. I don't plan to donate.
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Corsair
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Re: MacKay - Seer Stones Fair Podcast

Post by Corsair »

I have the podcast queued up. I am looking forward to it like a visit to the dentist. It will be good to deal with this but it's not going to be enjoyable. The gaslighting will not be welcome. But you bring out a couple of critical points. They won't be answering the question of why seer stones are not used today. They won't be speaking as a representative or priesthood leader of the LDS church so who cares what opinion they bring to the discussion.
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Hagoth
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Re: MacKay - Seer Stones Fair Podcast

Post by Hagoth »

What I always come back to is the question of why, if this all makes sense theologically and it's just the way God works, we shouldn't be concerned or disturbed by it. Why did it take anti-mormons and South Park to bring it out into the open? Why was/is a different version taught in the curriculum? And why were people like Quinn, Brodie and Palmer demonized for talking about it?

The goalposts are moving so fast these days they are a blur.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Anon70
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Re: MacKay - Seer Stones Fair Podcast

Post by Anon70 »

I always come back to Hagoth's points as well-why weren't they in the curriculum? Pictures? Conference talks? Why were people excommunicated for talking/writing about these things then? I have a friend that constantly defends the church and with every new revelation convinces herself she already knew it. I find it disorienting almost to talk to her about these things.
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