Yet another LDS fireside on doubts and faith crisis on 2/17 - This is really incredible to watch in real time

[jfro18]

That will make three firesides/devotionals aimed at doubts and faith crisis in the first six weeks of 2019... really stunning to see the church work so hard to make sure members don't go looking at the true history of the church.

[Red Ryder]

His resume looks like a history of writing bad sacrament meeting talks.

And is it normal to list your wife and children on your CV? Wtf?

https://divinity.vanderbilt.edu/people/ ... rsoncv.pdf

PUBLICATIONS
“Hate and Hermeneutics: Interpretive Authority in Luther’s On the Jews and Their Lies,” in Selected Proceedings of the Newberry Center for Renaissance Studies 2014 Multidisciplinary Graduate Student Conference (Chicago: The Newberry Library, 2014).

“The Rejection and Rehabilitation of Worship in the Old Testament,” in Ascending the Mountain of the Lord: Temple, Praise, and Worship in the Old Testament (Provo, UT: Brigham Young University Religious Studies Center; Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 2013), 185–203.

“Lehi’s Dream and Nephi’s Vision as Apocalyptic Literature,” in The Things which My Father Saw: Approaches to Lehi’s Dream and Nephi’s Vision, ed. Daniel L. Belnap, Gaye Strathearn, and Stanley A. Johnson (Provo, UT: Brigham Young University Religious Studies Center; Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 2011), 53–69.

“Writing in the Margins: Canonization and the Ordering of Charisma,” Glossolalia 4, no. 1 (Fall 2011).

“Of Soils and Souls: The Parable of the Sower,” The Religious Educator 9, no. 3 (2008): 31–47.

“The Problem of Pride: A Book of Mormon Perspective,” in Selections from the Religious Education Student Symposium (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Religious Studies Center, 2004), 1–14.

[hiding in plain sight]

It is like watching a slow motion car crash.

We know that it is a wreck, but it just keeps going and going.

I find it hilarious that the church thinks that the solution to their problem is to just say "Just believe" a thousand times and the problem of people leaving the church will go away.

To truly fix a problem you have to understand what the problem is in the first place.

And to me the church's problem comes simply down to this. What they teach in sunday school has been so simplified (correlated) that it is obviously NOT true when people leave the sunday school class and go out into the real world.

A prophet will never lead us astray runs smack into the face of the church essays disavowing past prophets. Into the face of anything Brigham Young said. Into changing eternal covenants in the temple.

What they need to do is start teaching a more complicated version of the gospel in sunday school and try to minimize the disconnect between the simple pablum they sell as truth in church with the reality people see every day.

Many people will still leave. But people like me, who actually loved the church experience wouldn't wake up and feel like I had been lied to my entire life. Which happens to be a bigger issue to many than actually knowing that truth claims are complicated.

[Palerider]

The melancholy mood at the COB must be overwhelming.

For whatever reason, the Lord decided not to prophetically reveal that this catastrophe was coming, nor the desperately needed answers that would alleviate the problem.

Perhaps (there's that famous Mormon word) He wanted leadership to gain greater strength by having to work their own way through this church crisis? Perhaps it is a great test being given to the entire church to see who chokes on pop quizzes? Perhaps this is a strike by Satan in retaliation for the revealed branding change regarding the name of the COJCOLDS?
He was making so much headway before....

I feel certain that if we can just remain faithful to the corporation long enough, that the mystery of all this craziness will be brought to light and make total sense.

[Corsair]

It has been nearly a consistent weekly flow of "keep the faith" firesides. This one is on Feb 17, and on Feb 10 we will have Nelson and Oaks speaking in Phoenix to area members, but youth in particular. On that day they will be in the stadium that the home stadium of the Phoenix Cardinals football team. The Superbowl has been held twice in this stadium (2013 and 2015) Tom Brady of the Patriots had a stadium full of fans both times, but at least part of them were rooting against him.

But on February 10, 2019, the entire statdium will be full of fans of Russell Nelson. Tickets are being distributed to wards and stakes. The youth will be seated by priority on the closest floor seats while parents will be restricted to the upper seats. Nelson wants to focus on the youth, apparently. That Kool-aid ain't gonna drink itself.

Tickets in my ward were limited enough that they were distributed by literally pulling names from a hat. The bishopric passed around a sign up sheet last Sunday and asked us to put down how many adult and youth tickets each family wanted. My wife tried to get one of our kids to go, but they all kindly turned her down for various reasons. So she will be attending with a cousin, but not us. This may or may not be a pleasant evening in my household.

I will be watching the televised version at my stake center. My daughter will be with me who is largely a believer, but has no interest in a 45 minute car ride, being seated nearly an hour early, and a packed crowd on hard stadium seats.

[hiding in plain sight]

But on February 10, 2019, the entire statdium will be full of fans of Russell Nelson.

A stadium full of people devoted to their religious leader just made me think of the moonies.

[Anon70]

I wonder what is costs to rent out these stadiums. They just did this in Seattle too. Money to burn, apparently.

[Palerider]

I wonder what is costs to rent out these stadiums. They just did this in Seattle too. Money to burn, apparently.

To book Chase Field at the high season (which this is) would have to be really spendy. Just guessing at a million or so.

Just the pool suite itself is over $4000 a night. I'm guessing Nelson, Oaks, Eyring and spouses got them to throw in the pool for a relaxing little swim after all the worshipers have left the stadium....

ETA: Chase Field does host or book non-profit events. I'm betting they might give someone a break on such things. At a modest $5.00 a seat and if they filled say 30,000 of the 48,000 available, that would put them at around $150,000?

Or am I looking at that the wrong way?

[Corsair]

I wonder what is costs to rent out these stadiums. They just did this in Seattle too. Money to burn, apparently.

This is the first Sunday after the Superbowl. The rates probably go down right after the end of the NFL chamionship game. Is it too cynical to see this as a way to impress the believers by renting out the largest conference venue in the Phoenix metro area? This is probably what would be used if Pope Francis came to town.

[slavereeno]

Leader worship was the "straw that broke the camel's back" for my shelf. I am still at a point in my FC that attending this would cause me quite a bit of anxiety. DW has been understanding and we have not attempted to get tickets to the Phoenix RMN concert.

[Red Ryder]

I wonder what is costs to rent out these stadiums. They just did this in Seattle too. Money to burn, apparently.

To book Chase Field at the high season (which this is) would have to be really spendy. Just guessing at a million or so.

Just the pool suite itself is over $4000 a night. I'm guessing Nelson, Oaks, Eyring and spouses got them to throw in the pool for a relaxing little swim after all the worshipers have left the stadium....

ETA: Chase Field does host or book non-profit events. I'm betting they might give someone a break on such things. At a modest $5.00 a seat and if they filled say 30,000 of the 48,000 available, that would put them at around $150,000?

Or am I looking at that the wrong way?

This is in the football stadium. Chase is the baseball stadium. I'm guessing this is $500K at a minimum due to personnel costs for ushers, traffic control, and security.

Wasted money.

[wtfluff]

At least these old bigots are getting out there, and "visiting" with their "fans." Maybe they're trying to appeal to the Billy Graham fans?

The old bigots really are like rock stars to believing mormons. Does that mean these big hoopla events are Morm-Rock concerts?


I mean the old Morm-Rock-Star bigots are still lying through their teeth at every "concert," but then again, "leadership" has been lying through their teeth since the early 1800's. They seem to be incapable of doing anything else.

[jfro18]

This is in the football stadium. Chase is the baseball stadium. I'm guessing this is $500K at a minimum due to personnel costs for ushers, traffic control, and security.

Wasted money.

I would $500K sounds about right. They sometimes can lower that with concessions but I don't know if they do concessions for an event like this?

I'm in Illinois and I've heard renting a major stadium here runs minimum $250-500K depending on security, traffic, etc. The AZ football field has to be in the upper part of that range for sure...

What a waste of money for a photo op and chance for RMN to feel like a rock star.

[Palerider]

I wonder what is costs to rent out these stadiums. They just did this in Seattle too. Money to burn, apparently.

To book Chase Field at the high season (which this is) would have to be really spendy. Just guessing at a million or so.

Just the pool suite itself is over $4000 a night. I'm guessing Nelson, Oaks, Eyring and spouses got them to throw in the pool for a relaxing little swim after all the worshipers have left the stadium....

ETA: Chase Field does host or book non-profit events. I'm betting they might give someone a break on such things. At a modest $5.00 a seat and if they filled say 30,000 of the 48,000 available, that would put them at around $150,000?

Or am I looking at that the wrong way?

This is in the football stadium. Chase is the baseball stadium. I'm guessing this is $500K at a minimum due to personnel costs for ushers, traffic control, and security.

Wasted money.

Ahhh... you're right. Got them confused. Not a big sports fan.....

[deacon blues]

But on February 10, 2019, the entire statdium will be full of fans of Russell Nelson.

A stadium full of people devoted to their religious leader just made me think of the moonies.

Do they do the order of prayer at those things?

[RubinHighlander]

A stadium full of people devoted to their religious leader just made me think of the moonies.

Looks like the COB sold a building to the Moonies in Washington a while back.
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705 ... -Ward.html

They've probably bought and sold real estate to many different religions over the years, maybe even a few houses of ill repute, like evil people who sell coffee and beer

[Hagoth]

Tickets are being distributed to wards and stakes.

Have you done the numbers to figure out how many Wonka bars you have to buy to be guaranteed a golden ticket?

[Mormorrisey]

What they need to do is start teaching a more complicated version of the gospel in sunday school and try to minimize the disconnect between the simple pablum they sell as truth in church with the reality people see every day.

Many people will still leave. But people like me, who actually loved the church experience wouldn't wake up and feel like I had been lied to my entire life. Which happens to be a bigger issue to many than actually knowing that truth claims are complicated.

I absolutely agree, and it would make church more bearable for many of us.

Unfortunately, the current correlated material is perfect fodder for the older, settled crowd in my ward, including Sis. M, and this is the crowd they are interested in coddling. Anything that disturbs this group out of their Sunday torpor is to be consciously avoided, as this is the only group that matters. They pay the tithing, they run the programs, they keep the others in line, and THEY DON'T WANT TO BE DISTURBED. So they won't be.

[Hagoth]

One thing most people have in common is that they want to be reassured that they are right, and that they have things figured out better than those who are not on the inside of their worldview. That's really what church meetings are really about.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Concessions: Free Cool Aid for sure. The rest is BYOB.