Rise of the "Nones"

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Linked
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Rise of the "Nones"

Post by Linked » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:33 am

Interesting article on the "Nones", those who select "None" on a surveys asking about their faith, was posted on 538 today.

Highlights include:
- Most religious defectors come from Mainline Protestants and Catholics
- The "Nones" as a bloc are about as big as Catholics or Evangelicals
- Most "Nones" don't identify as agnostic or athiest, but rather as "nothing in particular", and that group is less critical of religion
- The religious defection has been pretty evenly split between Black, white, and Hispanic people
- White, college educated, democratic-leaning men have a higher tendency to be athiests or agnostics
- The defectors tend to be younger, though there are still quite a few older people leaving religion
- The spread of "Nones" is quite broad, a quarter of "Nones" voted for Trump in 2020
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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hiding in plain sight
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Re: Rise of the "Nones"

Post by hiding in plain sight » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:20 pm

Nice article and thanks for sharing. This quote stood out to me.
The nones can generally be broken down into three groups: agnostics, atheists and a third bloc that is much larger than the first two and doesn’t ascribe to a label — the “nothing in particular” bloc
It feels like the trend toward non-participation in religious groups is being driven more by religions just not working for people today. Less than people becoming more secular/agnostic/atheistic. Just a thought.

I do still participate in church, but only marginally. It definitely works less for me than when I was growing up.

Thanks again for sharing.

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Angel
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Re: Rise of the "Nones"

Post by Angel » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:14 pm

I identify as "spiritual but not affiliated". It allows me to escape the stigma of athiest, escape labels of fence-sitting ignorant agnostic (not true labels, but it feels like that is the opinion of many), escape any labels of religious groups, and not offend any religious groups as being 'anti-god'. I am also not politically affiliated which again avoids much of the stigma associated with politics. People seem too busy for church, find volunteer work, support groups, and activism more spirituality rewarding than listening to some random person's lecture.

Plus, Revelations prophecies before the second coming all the great and spacious buildings and corrupt religious organizations will be torn down so.... the final victory isn't going to "organized religion", it's a "little child shall lead them" kind of a deal :D. Isaiah 11:6
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: Rise of the "Nones"

Post by Linked » Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:25 pm

Angel wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:14 pm
I identify as "spiritual but not affiliated". It allows me to escape the stigma of athiest, escape labels of fence-sitting ignorant agnostic (not true labels, but it feels like that is the opinion of many), escape any labels of religious groups, and not offend any religious groups as being 'anti-god'. I am also not politically affiliated which again avoids much of the stigma associated with politics. People seem too busy for church, find volunteer work, support groups, and activism more spirituality rewarding than listening to some random person's lecture.

Plus, Revelations prophecies before the second coming all the great and spacious buildings and corrupt religious organizations will be torn down so.... the final victory isn't going to "organized religion", it's a "little child shall lead them" kind of a deal :D. Isaiah 11:6
That makes a lot of sense. I think there is a similar "rise of the nones" going on in politics where people are independent, but they almost always vote with one party or the other because their values are still similar to one group, but they dislike the group itself. I think doing volunteer work and being a part of support groups, etc. is probably better than spending hours in church on Sunday, and hours more over the week dedicated to keeping yourself, family, and ward from finding better things to do.

I think before my faith transition I could have been considered "not spiritual but affiliated". In some ways that is still where I am, but if asked I would now consider myself an agnostic athiest. (agnostic because there is a lot of uncertainty and I don't really know one way or the other, athiest because I don't believe in an intervening god). But I don't wear it on my sleeve publicly because there is stigma there, though the number of people who feel similarly seems to be growing.

Now I want to see a horror movie called "The Rise of the Nuns" :shock:
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Rise of the "Nones"

Post by Angel » Mon May 03, 2021 4:19 pm

Linked wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:25 pm

That makes a lot of sense. I think there is a similar "rise of the nones" going on in politics where people are independent, but they almost always vote with one party or the other because their values are still similar to one group, but they dislike the group itself. I think doing volunteer work and being a part of support groups, etc. is probably better than spending hours in church on Sunday, and hours more over the week dedicated to keeping yourself, family, and ward from finding better things to do.

I think before my faith transition I could have been considered "not spiritual but affiliated". In some ways that is still where I am, but if asked I would now consider myself an agnostic athiest. (agnostic because there is a lot of uncertainty and I don't really know one way or the other, athiest because I don't believe in an intervening god). But I don't wear it on my sleeve publicly because there is stigma there, though the number of people who feel similarly seems to be growing.

Now I want to see a horror movie called "The Rise of the Nuns" :shock:
There is a lot of uncertainty. Through my faith transition I found myself realizing that for those things we cannot know, we have the freedom to choose which way to lean. If I was to allow myself to wishfully fantasize on what lies beyond the veil of death?

Athiest - conservation of matter, energy, conscience? Everything mixed back together - the ultimate "united in all things" right? Returning to the state we were before birth.

Reincarnation makes logical sense, learning, experiencing, actually walking miles in other shoes. There is empathy in believing "that could be me", to the extent of not eating meat, not even eating a plant if you kill it in the act of harvest... there is pain in Reincarnation though.

If you were to free your mind to choose and create your own version of heaven, what would it look like?

Mine - a mountain community of friends and neighbors, a Thomas Kincade house near river and hot springs. A sandy path to the ocean. It's what I visualize when someone dies, what I imagine before I go to sleep.
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: Rise of the "Nones"

Post by Linked » Mon May 03, 2021 5:04 pm

Angel wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 4:19 pm
If you were to free your mind to choose and create your own version of heaven, what would it look like?

Mine - a mountain community of friends and neighbors, a Thomas Kincade house near river and hot springs. A sandy path to the ocean. It's what I visualize when someone dies, what I imagine before I go to sleep.
Sounds like a beautiful afterlife, sign me up!

These are some of the great mysteries of the universe the church acts like it knows the answers to, ruining the wonder of it all.

All my thoughts of an ideal afterlife right now are just fixing what I see as my problems. No work stress. Great relationships with my loved ones without my issues getting in the way and no political or religious differences as a wedge. Lots of beauty around me that I have the time and attention to admire and enjoy. My wife and kids there enjoying it with me. And a church gym to play basketball in :lol:

As for what I think actually awaits us after death? I suspect it is a whole lot of nothing because I can't see how any other options would work, though I've never been there so I won't be too surprised if I'm wrong.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

Reuben
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Re: Rise of the "Nones"

Post by Reuben » Tue May 04, 2021 1:14 am

Linked wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 5:04 pm
Angel wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 4:19 pm
If you were to free your mind to choose and create your own version of heaven, what would it look like?

Mine - a mountain community of friends and neighbors, a Thomas Kincade house near river and hot springs. A sandy path to the ocean. It's what I visualize when someone dies, what I imagine before I go to sleep.
Sounds like a beautiful afterlife, sign me up!

These are some of the great mysteries of the universe the church acts like it knows the answers to, ruining the wonder of it all.

All my thoughts of an ideal afterlife right now are just fixing what I see as my problems. No work stress. Great relationships with my loved ones without my issues getting in the way and no political or religious differences as a wedge. Lots of beauty around me that I have the time and attention to admire and enjoy. My wife and kids there enjoying it with me. And a church gym to play basketball in :lol:
Sounds like the broad strokes of what you hope for in an afterlife haven't changed that much. I'm sure the problems you want fixed have changed, though, probably a lot. And some of the fixes.

Putting my "before" hopes in terms of fixing problems: no more temptation, the time and energy to do all the gospel things, everyone finally realizes we were right all along, and almost everyone is forgiven and makes it to the CK. I do realize that last one is more universalist than the church teaches.

Putting my "after" hopes in terms of fixing problems: the time and energy to do the things I want to do, and everyone finally realizes that we were all wrong but good enough as we were for whatever - if anything - is in charge of everything.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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Re: Rise of the "Nones"

Post by Linked » Tue May 04, 2021 10:32 am

Reuben wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:14 am
Putting my "after" hopes in terms of fixing problems: the time and energy to do the things I want to do, and everyone finally realizes that we were all wrong but good enough as we were for whatever - if anything - is in charge of everything.
It's quite a change for us to go from the mormon version where everyone finally realizes that we were right, to the version where we can all admit we were wrong, or that is just not an issue we care about anymore.

But in a way, I still want people to admit that I am right that this stuff doesn't matter.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Angel
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Re: Rise of the "Nones"

Post by Angel » Fri May 14, 2021 4:13 pm

Linked wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 5:04 pm

As for what I think actually awaits us after death? I suspect it is a whole lot of nothing because I can't see how any other options would work, though I've never been there so I won't be too surprised if I'm wrong.
Length contraction, time dilation, special relativity - some strange games can be played with time. Those who teach how to live in the present - not about future, or past - to fully imerse yourself in the present, where time goes away. Not about heaven or hell, or life before birth, but to live instead in the present, to find eternity in each moment... something to that line of thought too :)
“You have learned something...That always feels at first as if you have lost something.” George Bernard Shaw
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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