Does WestWorld solve the problem of suffering?

[LaMachina]

Any WestWorld fans out there?

This show has scratched so many itches for me. What is life? What is consciousness? What would it take for a machine to achieve it? I still hold a soft spot for mormon theology. A god that achieved it's position and was trying to help others achieve the position is so much more interesting to me than a god that has existed forever without form or passions. The show hits on those themes with the godlike builders and their creations. I love it.
*SPOILER ALERT*

One theme I found particularly interesting is Ford's consciousness pyramid which outlines what he deems necessary to achieve self-awareness and consciousness. See below:



Memory
Improvisation
Self-Interest
And the missing top section that he was struggling to find. There's talk of the bicameral mind and all that entails but eventually he seems to stumble on the missing piece...it is *Suffering*!!!
It's suffering that eventually kicks off the consciousness in the hosts, causing them to seek inward, recognize their own inner voice and find the prize in the middle of the maze.
What do you think? Have I understood what the show is trying to say? What does it say about us or possible gods and their attempts to give us insight? These aren't really new arguments as I've heard lots of people suggest that suffering is necessary of mortality. Most of us who reject gods reject this notion because it seems to us so awfully immoral. But if suffering were literally necessary for us to have any consciousness and thus have any free will? It's a notion I hadn't considered...

[Corsair]

I like Westworld's ideas about consciousness, but these are theories that are far from settled. At this stage of civilizational development we are unable to even define consciousness, let alone understand the boundaries or create it. Artificial Intelligence has made some impressive advances just in the past year, but we are nowhere near passing the Turing test. Westworld's solution to the problem of evil leaves us as automatons that cannot comprehend our actual status. If we actually did understand reality we would be cast into the depths of cognitive dissonance that would leave us on the road to mental breakdown. These ideas certainly make our problems with faith transition pale in comparison to full realization of reality.

Our perceptions of reality differ dramatically from what reality actually is. Plus, we are locked out of this comprehension by the limits of computational power in our own minds as well as the astonishingly narrow limits of our own sensory perceptions. J. B. S. Haldane was a British geneticist and evolutionary biologist. One of his famous quotes was, "Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."

[RubinHighlander]

This is great stuff! I need to check out that series. I remember the original version back in the 70's, it was pretty freaky back then to think about androids going rogue. Now that I've escaped the dogmatic view of mormonism, I've been able to explore other idea about creation, the universe, purpose, existence, the big bang, science, evolution, etc., it's been wonderful to be on a continual path of discovery!

In A Nutshell video I watched last year got me thinking about this consciousness thing, based on a non-God created breath of spirit perspective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQVmkDUkZT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotatio ... fYbgdo8e-8

I've also been wondering about some future ability for us to transfer the content of our brains into a machine someday, given that machine as equal or greater capacity for the brain's computing power. Will we maintain our consciousness? Will it still be us without our DNA? Will silicon based life forms gain consciousness? It's a mind blow to think about the possibilities!

[LaMachina]

I like Westworld's ideas about consciousness, but these are theories that are far from settled. At this stage of civilizational development we are unable to even define consciousness, let alone understand the boundaries or create it.

Agreed. Let's assume for the sake of my thought experiment they've possibly stumbled onto something.

*SPOILERS AGAIN*

Westworld's solution to the problem of evil leaves us as automatons that cannot comprehend our actual status.

This is certainly the case, at least originally, with the hosts (although it is fascinating to consider how automaton-like we may be as some of the studies RubinHighlander's excellent videos hint at). The show has not clearly answered these questions but there is the possibility that some of the hosts have achieved consciousness and are now operating outside their programming, that they are exercising free will. If this is the case, what is the theory for how this happened?

When the apparently conscious Bernard realizes he is actually a machine and that implanted memories of his sick and dying son are not real he asks Ford how he could be so cruel. Ford replies:

It was Arnold’s key insight, the thing that led the hosts to their awakening: Suffering. The pain that the world is not as you want it to be.

Bernard questions further, asking Ford why he is keeping the hosts, who can suffer, in this hell. Ford responds:

I told you, Arnold didn’t know how to save you, I do. You needed time. Time to understand your enemy. To become stronger than them. And I’m afraid that in order to escape this place you will need to suffer more.

This idea really stuck with me. It's kind of the polar opposite of the Matrix where Agent Smith is talking about early models of the matrix being a utopia. He says those models were a disaster, no one accepted the programming and people woke up. In this case, it is the suffering that wakes the hosts up. But why? I've heard the same questions from religious thinkers and believers. Why were we not allowed to live out our days in the utopia of the Garden of Eden? I've heard many responses:

• We could've lived there but Adam and Eve messed up so we reap the consequences.
  
  We've chosen suffering.
  
  We wouldn't learn anything without suffering.

None of those answers ever resonated much with me. But I've got to say, the idea that we would be incapable of even developing free will or consciousness without suffering is really intriguing to me. What if it wasn't Adam and Eve having their eyes opened and being cast out into the wilderness but instead Adam and Eve being cast out into the wilderness and then having their eyes opened? It's not a perfect answer without a lot of follow up questions but, for me at least, it's one of the first ideas that doesn't lead me to the conclusion that god would have to be a moral monster. Anyway, something that keeps me up at night musing.